RoR: Forum

I knew next to nothing about "Firefly" or "Serenity" until I chanced upon this thread. I was curious so I purchased the DVD boxed set of the television series. I finished it last weekend and I was more than pleasantly surprised! It was too bad that Joss Whedon allowed the suits at Fox to stifle his vision by not releasing the episodes in chronological order, but not everyone can have the integrity of Howard Roark

I was not thrilled by the opening sequence of the pilot episode (I found the battle unrealistic but I can be picky about such things) but I really got into it after Mal opened the box Simon was hiding River in (the plot thickens!). By the time I finished the episode "War Stories", I was a bona fide "browncoat". I have not yet seen "Serenity", since it has not yet been released in Italy, but I will be the first one in line when it does. I'll buy the DVD too! I'm in the military, so the episode "The Message" (the final episode that aired on network TV) touched me especially. I lost count of how many buddies picked me up when I could not crawl, and vice versa.

One thing I found interesting was that I have liked books and movies that Ayn Rand would call Naturalism. "Firefly" falls in that category. Many of the characters are deeply flawed. Morality, for them, is not black-and-white, but shades of gray. Their life, however exciting, is lived as a day-to-day struggle against those who are darker shades of gray. The "good guys" don't always win in the end, and when they do, it is not without consequences. Nonetheless, I find myself sympathizing with them. I think this is evidence that not all good art has to be Romantic or Realist.

What I do like about the series is the witty dialogue and the slow-but-sure exposition of the characters. Even Jayne, the obligatory bad-ass, is not that one-dimensional a character (especially in the episode "Ariel"). It is a well-written integration of action, drama, and comedy.

Lastly, it would be a touch choice, but I'd take Kaylee over the other women (not that I'd go wrong with any of them!). I also liked Jewel Staite's essay in "Finding Serenity" (I'm biased!)

(Edited by Byron Garcia on 11/22, 6:45am)

Post 21

Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 7:01am

I just started getting the series on DVD through Netflix, and watched the first 3. Enjoyed them thoroughly and can't wait to see the rest. One odd thing I noticed was that I could not tell what episonde was first, second and third on the menu by the way they arranged it, so I ended up watching it as episodes 2,3, then 1... still, it didn't really matter that much.

Post 22

Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 10:43am

Byron,
I have to respectfully disagree with part of your characterization of Firefly. I'm not a huge fan, though I liked it well enough. It is definitely not, however, Naturalism. All the characters are drawn in Romantic terms, each with a strong code of values to which they adhere. (Even the mercernary, Jayne, interestingly enough.) They often are struggling to make difficult moral choices in a complex setting. That doesn't make it naturalistic, or their moral philosophy gray, merely closer in one way to the real world in which humans have always lived.

The setting is imaginary, and probably impossible. The villains are all throughly black, though they have subtleties. The main hero, Mal, especially is a man of considerable integrity, though he is conflicted by externals and his love for the companion. The companion character is a projection of what prostitution should be (according to the writer). Kaylee is obviously a very romantic young woman, but at the same time a master mechanic. Mal's lieutenant is loyal, but not mindlessly so, often disagreeing vehemently with him. The doctor's rescue of his sister and her steadfast defense -- highly romantic. I could go on....

These are not the kinds of people one meets on the little street at the house next door.

All these are marks of romantic fiction.

Jeff

Post 23

Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 1:17pm

Glad you liked it so much, Byron.

It was too bad that Joss Whedon allowed the suits at Fox to stifle his vision by not releasing the episodes in chronological order, but not everyone can have the integrity of Howard Roark

I think this is a little harsh. Joss Whedon has quite a lot of integrity, and reading about his fights to get Buffy, etc. produced the way he thought they should be has often reminded me of Roark. I'm glad Joss didn't just walk out and say, "you know what, if you don't play my pilot first, I'm just not doing the show." There'd be no Firefly then.

Everyone who loves Firefly--check out Buffy.

Post 24

Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 11:09pm

Jeff,

You gave me food for thought. I chewed it over and I changed my mind. It is not Romantic Realist, per se, but it is Romantic for the reasons you gave. What I missed was the fact that, at the end of the day, the characters did make moral choices according to their principles, often with courage against adversity, even if took them awhile to reach that point. Thank you for your insight.

Daniel,

Perhaps I did sound harsh, though I did not mean to. From listening to the DVD commentary, and reading "Finding Serenity", I understand he went through a lot of struggle against those who would compromise his vision. However, the fact is, he did compromise. Roark would have walked out. Heck, he blew up one of his buildings!

Of course, I'm glad Joss Whedon didn't blow up his building. We would not be sitting here talking about a great show if he did. To be honest, in my own life, I am not as uncompromising as Roark either. Far from it. I've had to bite the bullet, so to speak, to achieve a larger goal.

Post 25

Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 8:12pm

     Why all these 'either-or' choices re Jayne, Kaylee, etc. I dunno.

     I say: "Have your baby-cakes and eat 'em too."

     I saw Serenity (after reading so much praise for it in several forums) and, I gotta (hate to, though) say: unless one's familiar with the Firefly series, it's just not that awesome. --- I later caught a couple of episodes on SciFi channel, and can understand the attraction. The characters ARE very interesting on their own, and in their interplay. But, I'll not watch another ep until I get the DVD series. Some series that have obvious 'seasonal' story-arcs, like 24 or (the new) Battlestar Galactica are not to be caught randomly. I'd now put Firefly in this class. The Firefly series seems to have run into the same prob as a former GREAT series crashed into: Space: Above and Beyond. At least the writers there saw the suits' writings on the wall and managed to make an 'ending' killing off several main characters while leaving others to...who knows ? (just when the story-arc was intensifying, dammit!)

Byron:

     Well, keep in mind that Roark DID get his buildings built; and Joss DID get his series going. Indeed, I'd say that Joss DID 'blow up' his series rather than let it degenerate into something like Star Trek:Enterprise (An ok idea, but, like all ST writers of the 2nd or 3rd seasons-on, unimaginative group-hacks [akin to Roark's 'improving' architects] bouncing 'ideas' off each other...in this case, in the 1st season). In this, I'd say Joss was more similar to, than different from, Roark.

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 2/02, 8:14pm)

Post 26

Friday, February 3, 2006 - 9:59am

John, I LOVED Space, Above and Beyond and so missed it when it was cancelled.

Post 27

Sunday, February 5, 2006 - 12:13am

Kurt:

     No two ways about it: Of ALL the TV-series I've found interesting since I 1st saw TV shows, THAT one is definitely, regardless its short run, one of my top 3. --- I got hooked when I *accidentally* caught its 1st show (lucky me) and made a point to follow it whenever it showed up.

     It's 'time' was always scheduled (hereabouts) as Sunday 7pm, but, it chronically kept getting pre-empted/started-later for some local basketball/whatever thingy ('suit-turf' decisions, I understand); but, over the year+, it did get 're-run'...sometimes on schedule. Played hob with my VCR time-settings, lemmtellyou...not to mention my self-control at leaving my TV continue working!

     Clearly, Firefly fans don't seem to be aware of it; if they were, they'd be talking about it also (understandable why they don't; it was hard to catch), since I think there are many similarities character-individuals-wise (different 'motivations') and their interplay, all related to an over-all 'story-arc' (regarding an other alien species we've just discovered 'conflicts' with)...as well as an added 'species' of sapient AI's that were earlier created (and enough of, for them to make their own resent-filled 'war' with humans, whilst some we're 'integrated' into the military as...'citizens'...hence, internal-group 'bias' probs.) --- Oh, since I went this far in describing, I might as well spell out that 'all' the main characters had joined (for QUITE varying reasons) the Space MARINES (same 'dress' uniform as today! Sharp!) and...aww, nm: it's gone. Super-Bummer.

     Anyhoo, hope the series comes out on DVD. Cripes; everything else has.

"To Infinity...And BEYOND!!"
J:D

Post 28

Sunday, February 5, 2006 - 9:52am

John,

Space Above and Beyond - The Complete Series (1995) is available on DVD now.

Post 29

Tuesday, February 7, 2006 - 1:20pm

Bob:

I never did manage to tape all the episodes.

To paraphrase Cyrano: "Thank you, thank you, THANK you...oh man, thank-you."

(Gone Buying)
LLAP
J:D

Post 30

Monday, August 28, 2006 - 11:05am

The Operative may be one of Whedon's best villains. Joss didn't even give him a name.

Post 31

Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 6:57pm

     Finally caught the WHOLE DVD series of Firefly...and watched Serenity again after.

     I was right. What a series...and ending movie!

     Right up there with Space: Above and Beyond.

     What a bummer that these type of stories are mere pawns of 'suit'-jockey 'turf'-wars!

LLAP
J:D

Post 32

Sunday, September 24, 2006 - 7:08pm

Firefly is on my wish list - perhaps to get after next month, when the shows are held and [hopefully] works are sold.....;-)

Post 33

Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 8:35pm

I keep holding off on watching Firefly while waiting to find a girlfriend. The series was great! And I did watch the one episode which begins with the captain nude in the desert in "the thinker" pose. SO FUNNY!

But it would be so much more fun to watch both Serenity and Firefly with a lover that I'm salivating with desire - whether Firefly or the presumed lover is the cause majure being open to question...

My take on the movie, which I only saw 4 times in the theatre and twice so far on DVD at SF cons, is that it is just about a perfect work of art. I just wished that they could have gotten the copyrights to play the original TV series music at the end. I'm assuming that it cost too much. There is more IN Serenity than just about any five other SF movies, and it all hangs together - although with much more depth if you had watched the series as well.

Post 34

Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 2:43pm