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Post 40

Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 4:12pmSanction this postReply
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     N-O-W, to return to our 24 program...

1) Will another 'nuke' go off...somewhere? If so, will it be Hollywood? (with all those sympathizing supporters? Yeah, right.) Disneyland? Las Vegas? NORAD Mt? Nashville (especially 'Graceland'; wow, that'd rile some up, huh)? ... then, there's Lynchburg...   :)
 To be sure, Washington WILL be 'a' target, but, Jack'll manage to forestall that; with D.C. gone, there goes the series, I'd say. 2 others will be found, but, I'm sure *1* more'll go off.

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 1/18, 4:44pm)


Post 41

Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 5:07pmSanction this postReply
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~ Oh, yeah...

2) WHO is going to be the next 'found out' betrayer (whether a 'mole' sympathizer/mercenary, pure mercenary, or extorted [from the beginning or, later on])? Palmer's sister? His main Cabinet man (Peter McNic[h]ol, who was great as 'John Cage' in Ally McBeal). Dare I consider...Chloe? Also, haven't seen Kim or Audrey lately...hmmm. I guess we can scratch Curtis...unfortunately. Then, who knows what else Assad (no more 'Mr. Nice Guy' from Deep Space 9) might have a secret agenda about?

LLAP
J:D


Post 42

Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 7:04pmSanction this postReply
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John, you've inspired me to suggest a rather cynical, but tongue-in-cheek, contest:

Who's backyard should be ground zero for the next suitcase nuke on "24"?

OJ's?

Michael Moore's?

Ted Rall's?


And should Jack really try to stop the bomb...or should he call up the "victim" on his omnipresent cell and say:

"You are running out of time!"


Post 43

Thursday, January 18, 2007 - 9:03pmSanction this postReply
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For the same reason that Ed could take offense about my calling a chimp a violator, I could take offense at those taking literally and out of context my use of the word arbitrator. All I said was that a violent act between two people on an island was more comparable to me to war than to crime. Did I say that it was not evil? Are there not bigger nits to pick?

I still maintain that in the face of the imminent annihilation of society or self, legalistic qualms are misplaced. does anyone object to that? If not, adieu.

Post 44

Friday, January 19, 2007 - 1:47amSanction this postReply
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Robert:
     LOL! That could make a really great 'media'-contest! (Not that they'll touch the idea with even a mere 10-person...'poll' [couldn't resist that].)
     Maybe someone (not 'hinting'; you got less trivia stuff to do) on a blog or other forum will push the idea. --- Ha! Have *I* got a list (hint: I start with Lynchburg...and maybe look 'international'...and maybe have Jack 'save', well, some of them [then again, depends on my list]) !
     What an idea!

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 1/19, 1:47am)


Post 45

Friday, January 19, 2007 - 2:29amSanction this postReply
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Ted:
     I do not 'object' to the view that 'legalistic qualms are misplaced,' re 'in the face of imminent annihilation of society or self.' Indeed, this perspective fits right into *my* source of fandom re the near-vigilante 'police'-protector, Jack Bauer (wow, how this all does 'fit in'!) --- Since I do not object, ergo, you have not 'adieu'd, I hope.
     Now, about my question re Spartacus and Rome.......What say you?

LLAP
J:D


Post 46

Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:19pmSanction this postReply
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Robert:

     Don't know why I didn't think of this re responding to your last post in THIS thread...

     How about 'The U.N.'? (just an 'idea'; I don't expect they'll touch it in the series.)
     Man; if Jack saves 'em, what would be the expected reaction of the ambassadors (privately AND 'officially')? Now, THAT'd make a whole season in itself! But...I won't hold my breath for this idea to come around.

LLAP
J:D


Post 47

Wednesday, January 31, 2007 - 10:31pmSanction this postReply
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Ed,

As a philologist by habit, I take words back to their original usages and roots. You say that violator is a moral concept in post 30. Violate and violence come from the same source, An erruption can be violent and an explosion can violate the integrityy of a ship's hull. Hence your usage was non-standard. Assuming you meant something like violator of a law then the point is mute. But again, I was responding to what you said, not what you may have intended to mean.

John, as for Spartacus, I do distinguish between natural and civil rihts. One has the natural riht to fight tooth and nail to preserve one's life, and the extensions of one's life which are one's family and property. Civil rihts are those principles follewd within a polity which best guarantee natural rights. This requires that men submikt to an objective authority to settle disputes and that they refrain from viilantism - so long as the civil authority actually is protecting those rights. If the civil law or government is corrupt, then defying it is not a crime, but a proper act that the foundin fathers would have approved. A state usually has multiple checks and balances, so that injust actions at one level are c orrected at another level. In effect, that system of civil justice which best secures natural rights (even though individual revene must be forgone) is the proper system. Spatacus' rights may have been violated by one man, if he had no recourse, rebellion was proper.

I think this is clear and non-controversial.

Also, I meant adieu if people agreed the arguments had been settled and clarified, not eff off, I'm going home.

Ted

Post 48

Thursday, February 1, 2007 - 5:29amSanction this postReply
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Ted,

================
Violate and violence come from the same source, An erruption can be violent and an explosion can violate the integrityy of a ship's hull. Hence your usage was non-standard. Assuming you meant something like violator of a law then the point is mute.
================

In the context of interaction between volitionally conscious beings, violate just IS violation of a law (of natural law). Let me repeat a quote ...

=================
Natural law is that law, which it is proper to uphold by unorganized individual violence, whether a state is present or absent, and for which, in the absence of orderly society, it is proper to punish violators by unorganized individual violence.

Locke gives the example of Cain, in the absence of orderly society, and the example of a mugger, where the state exists, but is not present at the crime. Note Locke's important distinction between the state and society.

For example trial by jury originated in places and times where there was no state power, or where the state was violently hostile to due process and the rule of law but was too weak and distant to entirely suppress it. -http://jim.com/rights.html
=================

Ed

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Post 49

Monday, August 27, 2007 - 6:47amSanction this postReply
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Based in part on this this topic, we rented the first season.  The first four hours were gripping.  The plot twists kept our attention.  It was so exciting, it affected my dreams.  Then, the next disc ... and the next... began to unravel.  Once my wife and I talked it out, we realized that this is a viceral show with low mentality. 

Anyone here who still thinks well of this program is not applying the Objectivist theory of aesthetics.  In point of fact, nothing posted so far mentions the integration of plot, theme and plot-theme to characterization and dialog.  Nothing does because nothing can.  Such does not exist.  We have three more hours to work through, but here are some of the problems with the first 21 hours.  I mention these only as a list because I do not intend to invest 24 hours pointing out more.  What follows is only an inventory to outline problems with craftmanship.

  • Continuity is always such a problem that it doesn't bother me anymore -- things disappearing and reappearing -- Rick's bruises were back when he got home (he lost them temporarily at the compound) -- the senator's necktie changed after his wife said she liked it.  Maybe he changed it because he stopped liking her, but that was not clear, just a continuity problem -- to say nothing of people who come and go from the background.  You get that with television productions because of the tight shooting schedules. 
  • However, some technical research would help.  The girls were at an airport with a tower -- they never say which one; LA has about six --  running across the runways, being chased by two guys on foot, dodging an aircraft taking off and this did not attract anyone's attention, no line jockeys, no mechanics or FBO pilots. 
  • And as for "real time" it takes at least three minutes to run a mile, usually more, especially in high heels.  Not only do the girls run the 4 miles across LAX (assuming that was the airport), these women run all over greater Los Angeles in less than an hour.  (After the flaming car crash, Jack's wife was spotted at Griffith Park; it's a wonder she did not run into Keith and Carl.) Even the Senator in his motorcade makes fantastic time, blowing away schedules for ad hoc meetings.  The people forgive you if your son is accused of murder, but they do not forgive you when you no-show an award, but politics in this show is no more realistic than anything else.
  • When the power company traitor was picked off by the angry marksman in the plaza, the agent yelled that he was just going to "wing" the guy... but his rifle scope had no crosshairs -- even if such a shot were possible, which it is not... not a running man.  No one in the plaza noticed the agency shooter standing behind some potted plants with a rifle. 
  • How about the close interface between work and family.  "Susan, this is Joanne, Bill's wife.  I know we never met but could you do me a favor? I mean, I know you work for a top secret government agency, but this is really important." 
  • Jack's wife and daughter seem to have all the numbers to all the workstations at CTU.
  • "My Dad is a secret agent."  The first time I met an FBI guy, he said he was a lawyer for the justice department.  And that's _above_ ground.  Arnold Schwartzenegger had a better cover in True Lies: computer salesman. 
  • "My family! My family!"  Oh, your family!  Well, why didn't you say so!  Of course, if it's your family...
  • The secret prison being assaulted by the Serbs and their mercenaries is undefendable -- even though prisons are supposed to be just that: lockdowns and lockups.  There was no electrical back-up, no generator, no batteries, no portable lamps.  The corridors should have been killing chutes.  The defenders had no gas grenades, no sprays.  Even fire hoses would have been effective.
  • Cellphones at work.  Anyone and everyone seems to have a personal cellphone on them for secret calls against orders.
  • After the safehouse was compromised -- four agents dead: one of them killed in a power company cherrypicker: was the killer disguised as a squirrel? -- the CTU sends one guy to the Bauer home to walk around the place and check it out and get killed, of course.  The bad guys did a good job of putting lasers into a tunnel, but no one wired the Bauer home with extra alarms, so the agents were totally surprised and killed.  Where did the other killer come from when the Serbs attacked the safehouse?  There was only one Serb -- who killed four agents -- then, at the last, someone else acted as a decoy in the bathroom.
  • How do you sneak pot in a "holding cell"?  Last time I was jailed, I was searched. 
  • You do not put suspects together in a holding cell because you do not want them to get their stories straight.
  • Why pay a utilities guy to cut the power from a substation when they could have blown the junction box themselves, which they did as Plan B.
  • The whole thing with Victor Draken being taken from prison to prison, interrogated while he gives them information for two years, is internally flawed.  Was he giving them information or not?
  • How does Milo -- a contractor -- have so much access.  He raps the keyboard and gives Jack more privs.  Isn't that a violation of something?  This will not be noticed by another contractor?  (Never mind that no one at CTU will ever notice because that's a given.)
  • The guy killed in New Orleans could not have survived in the field as long as he did if he was snuck up on in a men's room with a mirror over the urinal.  Why did he go in there in the first place when he had already pulled his gun once? Get out and go somewhere else. Why was he on the cellphone and secure top secret database computer in a bar?
  • "24" perpetuates the "Cult of Comfort" i.e., that the government can and will protect you.  They know every digital code on every U-Store and parking garage.  They can crosscheck every name against "every database" in a few minutes. They can track any phone call -- except when they have to... then it takes forever...
 This is a gut-level show.  I am disappointed.


Post 50

Monday, August 27, 2007 - 11:19amSanction this postReply
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Good to see you back, Mike. I love House. Can you praise or deconstruct it for us if you watch it?

Post 51

Friday, September 28, 2007 - 4:24pmSanction this postReply
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~ Mike makes many worth-considering points. However, given the character-type ('Jack') we're talking here, I find them mostly trivial compared to the extremely unusual 'torture' and 'outside-the-law' subjects.
~ I loved the remake of KING KONG, but, I picked that sucker apart in ATL-II worse than reviewers did  for how it could have been made 'better', including its length. THE MATRIX trilogy's my fave cinema-story; ntl, it's 20-min padding in the last I found to be, personally, a biggee flaw (though I loved the Merovingian character.)
~ There are websites devoted to picayuning cinema/tv-probs, most especially everyone's fave type: 'continuity.' Some see a glass 1/2-full, some see it as...not enough, ergo worthless. C'est la vie.

LLAP
J:D


Post 52

Friday, September 28, 2007 - 4:35pmSanction this postReply
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M. Marotta:

     I'm curious. What is *your* fave movie/tv show? (so we can segue out of '24' only here...)    :)

LLAP
J:D


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