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Post 20

Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 7:21pmSanction this postReply
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I cried when Dagny and Hank rode over the bridge.

Okay, I saw it and I liked it a lot. I would personally give it 8 out of 10 stars -- not the best movie ever, but a damn good one.

Mike, I also noticed that the Ayn Rand estate gave permission but not involvement.

Sam, as someone who didn't read the book first, I did have a hard time sorting out the characters (as you predicted). My less-than-optimal experience is perhaps of value to those who would seek to make the sequels even better and more appealing to every movie-goer:

It seems Ragnar was mentioned but never shows up. That was off-putting to me. Note that this was okay to do with John Galt, because the very storyline presents him as a mysterious character. It's the idea of having multiple characters without character development that diminished my experience. Also, Hugh Akston's part was so minor as to make it next to meaningless for me and my movie experience. I saw Orren Boyle but did not get a sense of how he was connected with the story. Wesley Mouch's part was very clear to me and, like I heard, he was indeed an embodiment of our own Barney Frank.

Was the "Middle Eastern" guy with glasses at the State Science Institute -- the one that Dagny went to see -- was that "Robert Stadler"?

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 4/16, 7:25pm)


Post 21

Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:57pmSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Yes, that was Robert Stadler, and in the book he was built up more in terms of his scientific stature, which made his desire to get the respect he deserved for his intellectual achievements clash with his traitorous acts in letting his institute condemn the metal - that was much richer and what we saw here was a bit flat and trivial. He should have been older, was my distracting thought when he appeared - they could have put grey in his hair and given just one or two more sentences to develop that horrible conflict he has made of his life... but again, time constraints, and we will have to see what is next.

Hugh Atkins was, like Francisco, on strike but didn't disappear. Francisco's role will let his character develop. But we haven't heard a word about why is Hugh Atkins - highly respected doctor of philosophy flipping burgers (more mystery to be integrated, or will it be dropped for not enough time)

It was interesting that Nathanial Branden was in the credits along with David Kelly and ARS. How's that for integration :-)

I don't remember for sure, but I believe Rangar was only a pirate headline till about mid-story.

That is interesting about the problems with too many characters introduced without any development (except Galt).



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Post 22

Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:15pmSanction this postReply
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My two cents, as posted on my blog:

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who know, and those who don't. To those who don't: No, I have nothing to say about this movie. God gave you eyes and a mind to use; if you fail to do so, the loss is yours, not mine.

To those who know:

I liked it. Considering the time constraints and the budget, well, it was not as good as the version in my head, but for someone else's vision, I enjoyed it, overall. Because I don't believe that the movie will "change the world" overnight (so I'm not counting on it as propaganda*), and because there are others already discussing the "objective" virtues and flaws of the production itself, I'll be content to indulge myself and simply register some of my own subjective, "Objectiv-ish" feelings...

-Owen Kellogg: Contrasts with my impression of the novel version; instead of seeming confident and resolute while resigning, the movie version was obviously feeling the pain of stepping away from what conventional society would consider a "golden opportunity." All that pain disappears, though, as he remembers something better: "Who Is John Galt?" As someone who's been there in real life, I could relate.

-Heroes and Villains: When I first read the book, I was coming at it from a perspective of a seeker of answers regarding religion. My initial reaction, during the early parts of the book, was that Dagny, Rearden, and co. were, in accordance with conventional ethics, "real bastards, while her villains initially appeared as the good guys. By the time got to the launch of the John Galt Line, however, I was cheering them; because Rand knew that she was "challenging 2000 years of Christianity," this was by design, and a testament to her powers of persuasion. I did not feel that from the movie; my suspicion is that, because the movie was done in a climate foretold by the book, the protagonists were inferred as heroes 'straight-up," and the antagonists felt like villains from the get-go. (I don't know if a newbie would get that same impression, though...)

-The John Galt Line: By the time I got to this scene in the book, Rand had already won me over, and I was exited about the success of the John Galt Line. If that had been the end of the book, I would have been satisfied; a "normal" book would have ended there, I felt. But it was no ordinary book...Anyway, it was fitting that this scene comes towards the end of part, as a "false climax". Because of the lack of time in the movie to develop Rand's themes, and the "predetermined" nature of the heroes and villains (compared to my experience with the book), it would have been a mild victory, compared to the book version. Fortunately, because of the cliffhanger of the real climax ("Wyatt's Torch,"), what would have been a superficial ending become the start of the real conflict, which was only hinted at by this time in the movie.

-Ellis Wyatt: The main characters were not my ideal cast from my imagination (from my first reading, I imagined Craig T. Nelson and JoBeth Williams (in their Poltergeist roles) as Rearden and Dagny, and Jimmy Smits as Franciso d'Anconia). I thought most of the cast were ok, though I was disappointed with the choice for d'Anconia. But Ellis Wyatt, however, made me forget about my own mental version, and, dare I say it, stole the movie, which was fitting for the character who would light the inextinguishable fire of "Wyatt's Torch." So when Dagny screamed at the end, I really felt it (and for me, that's when her character finally came alive.)

If I had to compare, I'd say I personally get more mileage from the movie version of The Fountainhead, but I'd see this again, and I certainly hope to see the next two.

* One of the previews, ironically, was for a movie called I Am," an anti-Atlas that claims to answer "what's wrong with the world" from the viewpoints of such "luminaries" as Noah Chomsky and Howard Zinn. From the movie's website:

"Ironically, in the process of trying to figure out what’s wrong with the world, Shadyac discovered there’s more right than he ever imagined. He learned that the heart, not the brain, may be man’s primary organ of intelligence, and that human consciousness and emotions can actually affect the physical world, a point Shadyac makes with great humor by demonstrating the impact of his feelings on a bowl of yogurt. And, as Shadyac’s own story illustrates, money is not a pathway to happiness. In fact, he even learns that in some native cultures, gross materialism is equated with insanity."

And the beat goes on...

(Edited by Joe Maurone on 4/16, 10:08pm)


Post 23

Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 10:26amSanction this postReply
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Joe, thanks for the write-up.  I added your blog to my list of places to visit.  (Rather than offer a review there, I only posted the tickets on my own blog.)

You know cinema and comics far beyond my experience.  I never saw Poltergeist. However, I do know Jimmy Smits from The West Wing (and The Jane Austen Book Club).  The problem with the hispanic casting is that Rand describes him as Latin as in Roman.  He comes from I, Claudius. But that was then and this is now, I guess.  Jsu Garcia portrayed well not Ayn Rand's intentions, but our expectations. He carried the playboy role well and I felt that he stepped out of it nicely when introducing himself to Hank Rearden: he projected a different quality entirely. 
JM: When I first read the book, I was coming at it from a perspective of a seeker of answers regarding religion. My initial reaction, during the early parts of the book, was that Dagny, Rearden, and co. were, in accordance with conventional ethics, "real bastards, while her villains initially appeared as the good guys.
That is an opinion I know from elsewhen.  I heard it from a middle aged woman who said you end up hating all the people you liked at the beginning.  I came to Atlas after Anthem, The Fountainhead, and then the non-fiction of the time FNOI and VS.  So, I was clued in a little better, but I admit that it took me a while to figure out James Taggart.  I saw him and Dagny as two sides of the same coin until about the Phoenix-Durango or so.  I can only apologize for being 17.  A comment by Nathaniel Branden on James's psycho-epistemology clarifed that for me some time later. 

ET: I cried when Dagny and Hank rode over the bridge.

 

I choked up a few times myself but held it together well enough.  I know the book at depth and my response was to those parts which affected me.  It's personal, of course. 

Hugh Akston's cigarette and the headlines about "Pirate Ragnar" were so tangential that only someone who knows the book would catch them or their meaning.  (A few weeks ago, Jim Henshaw called Tibor Machan "Mister" and I chimed in with a Star Trek response.  If you don't know the reference, it is meaningless or confusing.) 

I compare this, though, not only to Star Trek - all the fans know all the lines and scenes leading to this one - but also Jane Austen.  We own or have seen every Pride and Prejudice, a book that I confess I have not read.  Some versions are better in some ways than others, and fans disagree about what those are. 

Unlike any other work of fiction, this one intends to prove a significant claim, the acceptance of which would, indeed, change the world.  Over on MSK's OL, I replied to a post by Kat who thought that Owen Kellogg was too nerdy.  My reply was that in a rational world. Owen Kellogg would be a manager.  It is in our collectivist, tribalist, altruist neverland that the top jobs go to people who look and act like James Taggart.  And here we are today.


Post 24

Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 11:15amSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Michael.

"Over on MSK's OL, I replied to a post by Kat who thought that Owen Kellogg was too nerdy. My reply was that in a rational world, Owen Kellogg would be a manager. It is in our collectivist, tribalist, altruist neverland that the top jobs go to people who look and act like James Taggart. And here we are today."

I read that, and appreciated your response. I had it in mind as I watched the movie. I certainly didn't get the impression that he was someone that Dagny would have fired Kellogg...
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 4/17, 11:15am)


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Post 25

Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:10pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa:

All-time iconic lines of movies?

Star Wars -- "I am your father"
A Few Good Men-- "You can't handle the truth"
Jerry Maguire-- "Show me the money"
Apollo 13-- "Houston, we have a problem"
Terminator -- "I'll be back"
The Shining-- "Heeeeeeere's Johnny!"
Bond movies-- "The name is Bond, James Bond"
The Wizard of Oz-- "There's no place like home"
Gone with the Wind-- "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"
Atlas Shrugged"All finished, then?"





 


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Post 26

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 3:38amSanction this postReply
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Now that we know the movie producers in question can competently execute the first of three parts, we have time to prepare for the next release a year from now. I am thinking of local groups organizing through Meetup and other venues and renting floor space in malls where the movie is shown. Literature and other materials to supplement the movie's ideas along with contact information for your favorite Web site such as this one could engage many new arrivals.

Post 27

Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 7:02amSanction this postReply
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Enjoyed reading everyone's comments. Given the extensive amount of material producers had to work with, I think they did do an excellent job of condensing the story into an accessible and enjoyable film... even for the those unfamiliar with the novel.

I saw this with my wife, who has never read any of Rand's work, and she also came away from the movie pleased. She could have used just a little more backstory to some of the characters and some of the scenes, to help her follow the flow of the film better. However, the film does flow well, and has a good pace. I think that just 5-7 extra minutes length would have been all that would have been needed to amply smooth out transitions for the uninitiated.

And, by the end of the film - at least at the viewings I've attended - the audiences are fully engaged. Two of the audiences were (satisfyingly) large, and many clapped at the end. One fellow jibed to a friend "I told you he (Wyatt) disappeared", and may people were talking to one another while exiting the theaters.

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Post 28

Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 3:33pmSanction this postReply
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Another review of AS.

Here’s a thoughtful review by Jack Hunter, a conservative columnist and talk show host in Charleston, SC. Hunter wasn’t crazy about the movie but draws some interesting insights, compares “Atlas Shrugged” to “Avatar” and makes a few well-taken points, especially in pointing out where libertarianism and conservatism diverge:


Post 29

Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 6:34pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the link to the Jack Hunter review.  He was correct on all points, and presented facts interwoven with theory to explain a complex event from an objective point of view.  I was impressed.


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Post 30

Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 10:12amSanction this postReply
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I saw it again yesterday, and liked it even better the second time. I got all choked up near the end.

Ed wrote, "[A]s someone who didn't read the book first, I did have a hard time sorting out the characters (as you predicted." Really? You hadn't read Atlas Shrugged before the movie came out?? And all this time, you've been associated with Objectivism? Wow! Have you now read it? And how did you like it?

When I was in the Navy over 50 years ago, one of my fellow sailors was pushing for me to read Rand. My reaction was, her novels are too long. I wasn't much of a reader back then, but I happened to see a copy of Anthem on a table and noticed how short it was, so I thought, now that's more my speed! ;-) I loved it, and was immediately moved to read The Fountainhead, which I liked as well if not better, and then shortly thereafter, I read Atlas. So, Ed, check out Anthem as well.

Bon appetite! You've got a cornucopia of good fiction awaiting you.


(Edited by William Dwyer on 4/23, 10:22am)


Post 31

Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 11:44amSanction this postReply
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Bill,

I will pick up a copy of Anthem, soon. And I'll check back in with you ... and Steve ... and Sam ...

:-)

Ed


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Post 32

Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 12:16pmSanction this postReply
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Not to worry, Ed - I grew up with The Fountainhead - the movie... it wasn't until a late teen that I saw a copy of the book and wondered if was what the movie was based on - and found it SO much better, indeed, the BEST book ever read! so much so that when told she had written a better one, I exclaimed 'impossible', and refused to read it for six month... of course ended up reading it - and yes it was, philosophically a much better book, even as The Fountainhead was aesthetically a much more enjoyable one.......

Post 33

Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 1:24pmSanction this postReply
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Robert,

Yes, in some ways, The Fountainhead is better -- better literarily -- than Atlas Shrugged. And, of course, the book is almost always better than the movie. At least, that's my experience from seeing movies based on books. The book is richer -- you get more out of it -- than the movie.


Post 34

Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 5:33pmSanction this postReply
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Promise kept

So, which of the following was said to me today, by the Barnes & Noble cashier?

a) That'll be 8 dollars and 57 cents.
b) Everybody is reading these. Which one is that? Anthem? Oh, I just read that one.
c) Oh. You're getting that book?
d) Will you marry me?
e) You know, Rand wasn't right about everything.

:-)

Ed


Post 35

Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 6:35pmSanction this postReply
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heh - is not every day ye get a marriage proposal, Ed.....;-)

Post 36

Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 7:12pmSanction this postReply
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Okay, so that one's out. I admit that I might have been over-reaching just a tad, with that one (and you called me on it).

:-)

One down, four to go ...

Ed


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Post 37

Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 7:38pmSanction this postReply
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Hopefully "B", Ed!

Post 38

Friday, April 29, 2011 - 5:42amSanction this postReply
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Jay,

You're right! I couldn't believe it, but that was her response. In my years buying Objectivist books, I'd never gotten positive feedback from the clerk like that. If you take this one old woman's word for it, you'd have to say that there is a huge recent upsurge in public interest in Ayn Rand. 

Ed


Post 39

Friday, April 29, 2011 - 6:12amSanction this postReply
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Ed, when I used to work in bookstores, I always put in a good word for it at the registers...I was one of the few. On the flipside, I saw the range of reactions from customers, good and bad, and had more than one conversation...would be interesting to be back there, at least for a day...

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