About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Sanction: 8, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 8, No Sanction: 0
Post 0

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 6:21amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I sanctioned this article even though I disagreed with this part:
... walk out of class during the lecture to go to the restroom.
Forget it.  If I need to relieve my bladder or my bowels during the lecture, I intend to do so without compunction -- especially for those long three-hour once-per-week night classes.  A is A and free will can only go so far in the regulation of excretory functions.  I even remember a graduate student who taught us a long morning class on engineering dynamics during summer school who had to take his own bathroom breaks in the middle of his lecture to us.

Dr. Adams drifted beyond the bounds of reason when he criticized students who take restroom breaks during his lecture.


Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
While I agree that no one should use psychological disorders as an excuse for bad behavior, I disagree that "ADHD" is "fictional." I don't think it's any more or less fictional than the autism, Asperger's Syndrome, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or clinical depression--all of which to my knowledge lack an agreed upon laboratory test and fully understood neurophysiological cause. But, for people dealing with the symptoms of these conditions, the problems they face in achieving high-level functioning and optimal health are very real. Psychology is still a relatively new science, and our understanding of human behavior can only improve with time and study.

It's unfortunate that people want to use mental differences as an excuse for bad choices or bad behavior, but it's also a mistake to ignore these mental differences and label them as "fictional." Doing so sets limitations on finding real cures or treatments that can help people function better.

It may be, to use a physical analgoy, that most of us have a potential to run a 6-minute mile--and our choices, psychology, genetics and environmental factors all affect our ability to do so. But, if someone is not running a 6-minute mile, it's counterproductive to disregard all the factors affecting their lack of ability.

E.g., they may need to lose weight, gain muscle strength, improve cardiovasucualr functioning, change their diet, address psychological issues, stop smoking, change sleep patterns, etc. to be able to run a 6-minute mile. Just deciding to run a 6-minute mile does not negate the fact that they still have to address a wide range of issues to achieve their goal, depending on their mental and physical capacities to begin with.

Free-will may be the most important factor affecting behavior--but it is not the only factor. I think understanding the other factors can help us achieve our goals more efficiently and effectively, when we do decide to do something, even living a virtuous life.

Sanction: 7, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 7, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Considering that the education system was based on 19th century ideas with the intent to turn children into factory workers, trained like Pavlov's dogs to salivate every hour to a bell, I agree with Luke. It's bad enough public schools are still run like this, let alone adult classes.

This guy did not cure ADHD, he cured rude behavior, maybe.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 9/11, 3:03pm)


Post 3

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:53pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
My - such a bunch of wimpy bladder leakers, can't hold it for an hour... why not do as the doc said - leak before you seek...

Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:56pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thank you, Allison. Though I agree with Thomas Szasz and Jung in their belief that some who claim mental illness are, in fact, "malingering," it does not negate those who actually do have either true mental disorders, lesser abilities, or brain differences, and there needs to be more objectivity involved in differentiation the two.

One of the most harmful ideas is the one-size fits all approach to psychology and ethics that admonishes one to "snap out of it" and pull oneself up by the bootstraps. It's ignorant and assumes the worst about another. (If they truly are having difficulty; they are probably trying their best but becoming a square peg in a round hole.) If the mind is connected to the brain, then the brain has physical identity, which means it has limits, which means the mind is limited. Libido (the broader term of mental energy, not Freud's sexual idea) is limited, and mental abilities are going to be uneven, stronger in some areas, weaker in others. Rationality and objectivity are probably the best weapons we have for mental health (as one book title proclaims," Plato, not Prozac!" Substitute your favorite philosophy here...). But even if one identifies a true problem, awareness alone is not enough. (I think of Rand's supposed attempts to cure Frank of his brain problems by encouraging him to "think harder." It's not about thinking harder, it's a matter of using the equipment in according to its form and function. The brain, even with its plasticity, is still limited by its nature and can only change so much. That's why reason is so important, not only to know what we can do, but what we can't.) Jung said something that stuck with me on this: ""As long as you assume that you are making the weather, what can you do? You will try in vain to make good weather and you will never succeed, and because you are all the time angry at yourself for making rain, you will never invent an umbrella."

One-size fits all claims don't work. Just because some people are able to follow a certain way doesn't mean that everyone else will. Teachers like this guy, while rightfully resentful of those who may use ADHD as an excuse to misbehave, unfortunately fall into solipsism by their blanket rejection of anything that doesn't match their projections.

(BTW, I do not fall into the touchy-feely category of coddling and making excuses,i.e. "understand"; rather, I think to effectively deal with ADHD, Aspergers, etc., we need to UNDERSTAND how the brain is working and how it affects behavior so the individual can survive and flourish as independently as possible. Awareness can find the best ways to harness the abilities so achievement is possible. Ignorance will only perpetuate the vicious cycle of failure.

Post 5

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 2:03pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Robert, are you some kind of communist? This is America, we're freedom loving people!
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 9/11, 2:10pm)


Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 6

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 2:16pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Oh? Leaking like an animal is freedom? ok... :-) [just not on my floor, mind you]

Post 7

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 2:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Well, for the TRULY lazy, there are diapers...but yes, responsibility is called for; the call of nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed!

ADHD: Adult Defecation Hyperactivity Disorder

EEEEWWWWW.......:P
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 9/11, 2:42pm)


Sanction: 7, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 7, No Sanction: 0
Post 8

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 3:05pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Robert, since the author says the problem is one of focus, I would suggest to him and his students that they focus on the lecture and not on the poor soul who needs to use the restroom.  It happens even to those who responsibly use the restroom in a timely fashion.  I stand by my assertion that his demands fall outside the bounds of reason.

Notice that I am not saying that the law should force him to allow students the leeway of using the restroom during class.  The law should remain silent on the issue.  But I can justifiably call such demands irrational and therefore immoral.


Sanction: 8, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 8, No Sanction: 0
Post 9

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 3:20pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
That's a good point, Luke. Don't stop the individual from using the restroom, but do place the burden to keep up on the individual, meaning, the individual shouldn't hold up the rest of the class, and it's on him to fill in the gaps during that time.

Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Post 10

Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 5:03pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
In the courses I teach, I ask students to pair up so that each one has a study partner (give or take a group of 3 if the class has an odd number of students.) Besides being partners for dialectic study, partners are expected to fill in for each other (taking notes etc) if one partner is unavoidably absent for bathroom and other emergencies.

Being able to go when one needs to is better for the students - and if they can, they don't mind so much if sometimes I need to also. The I can teach better, because I am not fighting the battle of the bladder either...

(Edited by Adam Reed
on 9/11, 5:04pm)


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 11

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 6:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Re Post 4 by Joe: Thanks. I agree. I think much is within our control, physically and mentally, and understanding the physiology behind functioning can help us "command" nature...

Many summers ago, I worked for a psychologist, James MacDonald--(I think that's how he spelled his name)--who designed computer programs to help people learn better and to effectively raise their IQs. (His programs focused on developing right/left hemisphere functioning so there was less hemispheric dominance.) He helped a girl with a 76 IQ reach 110. She went from having a severe learning disability, to understanding college level math. Now, that's amazing...

~Allison

Post 12

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 6:19pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Allison-
Regarding this person you speak of, I would have to see much more than an anecdotal success story in order to grant any efficacy to his personal methods, but I do agree that ones critical thinking skills can be honed, and therefor I.Q. scores raised.  The example you give, however, seems to butt heads with the existing controlled studies.  Raising a score from a 76 is 110 seems improbable.  Perhaps she just had a bad day the first time she took an I.Q. test or maybe she did not apply herself.


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 6:22pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Oh, I forgot to ask, Joe--where did you read (and who wrote) "...of Rand's supposed attempts to cure Frank of his brain problems by encouraging him to "think harder"? I've never heard that before...What "brain problems" were they referring to and in what context? Thanks.

Post 14

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 6:27pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Final chapters of "Passion of Ayn Rand." Said she used epistemology training to counteract senility... with disaterous results.

---Landon

Edit: changed a word back to it's proper term from something resembling a swear word

(Edited by Landon Erp on 9/14, 6:29pm)


Post 15

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 7:06pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Thanks, Allison, and Landon for providing the reference. This was Barbara's claim to Rand's method of dealing with her husband's deteriorating brain, I can't pronounce or spell the actual disease from memory.

Post 16

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 7:08pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I don't think it got mentioned by name. It sounded like alzheimers.

---Landon


Post 17

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 7:13pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Lanodn-
Is that true?!  That would be tragically hillarious.  Forgive my dark sense of humor, but it is.


Post 18

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 7:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Yeah I had to change the word resluts.

---Landon


Post 19

Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 7:17pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Yeah I had to change the word resluts.
LOL.  I don't even know if Freud would touch that one.


Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.