About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Tuesday, November 8, 2005 - 7:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
... a large influx of Moslem immigrants who have no intention of becoming part of the cultures of the countries to which they immigrate but to recreate their own cultures in those countries.
They sound a lot like Jews. ... at least, that is what the fascists claimed, that Jews do not belong to the nations they have infested, but they maintain their own culture in every land...

This recent spate of Muslim-bashing on SOLO is not about rational philosophy versus traditionalist religion.  It is about xenophobia and nationalism and literal, actual anti-Semitism.


Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Tuesday, November 8, 2005 - 8:09pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Jews did not riot to impose their views on others..

Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 3, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Tuesday, November 8, 2005 - 10:48pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I agree with Michael, this has nothing to do with being Muslim, rather very very bad social and economic policy. Most of the communities being affected by the riots suffer from 30-50% unemployment -- bad labour laws, etc. -- if New Zealand had 30-50% unemployment among say older, ranting, educated, gay men, I dare say Perigo and his lot would be throwing Randitoff cocktails at the police as well.

Oddly enough the French government policy on race sounds very good -- there is no official recognition of race -- you are either French or not -- no affirmative action, no asking of race on census forms, no racial front groups allowed like the NAACP -- this is great except in reality most French are just as racist as their grandparents who sent the french jewish population to extermination with a wink and a nod and many wouldn't mind seeing the same thing happen to north africans.

Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 3

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 1:13amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Jews were somehow able to maintain their own communities in the U.S. without taking offense every time their neighbors ate non-kosher pork, without letting their neighborhoods lapse into gang rule, without demanding government handouts to alleviate their own poverty, and without rejecting the fundamental tenets of secularism in nations in which they settled.

Many of the Muslim communities of Europe have not achieved any of these things. Your analogy is way, way off base, Marotta. This has absolutely nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the fact that Western culture, the most rational, benevolent, and humanistic culture in the history of the world (whether practiced in London or New York or Hong Kong or Bombay or Dubai) is under assault by the adherents of a backwater creed they themselves call "Submission."

(And by the way, it should not be necessary for anyone on SOLO to issue the tiresome qualification, "Oh, and I am not speaking here of the more 'tolerant' or 'secular' or 'rational' etc. etc. Muslims." Yes, there are many such people, and no, our philosophic quarrel is not with them.)

(Edited by Andrew Bissell on 11/09, 1:13am)


Post 4

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 3:51amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
"Many of the Muslim communities of Europe have not achieved any of these things. Your analogy is way, way off base, Marotta. This has absolutely nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the fact that Western culture, the most rational, benevolent, and humanistic culture in the history of the world (whether practiced in London or New York or Hong Kong or Bombay or Dubai) is under assault by the adherents of a backwater creed they themselves call "Submission."

The troubles in France has a lot to do with race. You might remember Algeria, where many of the rioters are from. France colonized it for 150+ years and had an official policy of racism against the non-French population. The effects of which can still be seen in Algeria and France.

However, if most the youth had jobs or even a chance at a job, this would not be happening. The barriers to entry into the workforce are very high in France -- its very hard and expensive to hire and/or fire and to start your own business. So when jobs do open up, white french are much more likely to get a job over an equally qualified algerian/north african by a factor of 5 to 1 if studies are to be believed. While the jews in this country certainly faced oppression, they faced very few barriers to starting their own businesses. Again take any city in the US -- take the predominate minority and ensure male youth have a 50% unemployment rate and I guarantee it ain't gonna be pleasant, muslim, christian, jewish, asian, black or white.

Post 5

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 5:48amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
In my local real estate investors group, an associate shared with me an interesting story that illustrates the distinctions between the economic environments of America and France.

A French woman of his acquaintance had moved to the United States some years earlier.  In their conversations, she ranted about the backwardness of the United States, how the French had such wonderful programs as national health care, etc.

Later, she began attending his local realty investors meetings to learn more about the subject.  In their conversations during breaks, she expressed amazement at the freedom and ease with which any member of our society could profitably purchase, rehabilitate and sell homes.  She just could not believe it.  In France, she explained, the paperwork and approval process from the government would make such transactions impossible.

"Welcome to America!" he told her with a wink and a nod.


Post 6

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 7:00amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I think its both issues combining, and festering, that causes this mess.  It is the inevitable result of bad social policy, racism - because remember non-racist rhetoric does nothing for what people really feel and act on, Islamist fanning of the flames, good old-fashioned hooliganism, and all of it mixing up. 

Interesting stat I heard - since the 1970s, the USA has created something like 50 or 100 million jobs, and ALL of Europe together maybe a few million...  I don't remember the actual stats, but I do know we are speaking of orders of magnitude differences.


Post 7

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 9:18amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Andrew: (And by the way, it should not be necessary for anyone on SOLO to issue the tiresome qualification, "Oh, and I am not speaking here of the more 'tolerant' or 'secular' or 'rational' etc. etc. Muslims." Yes, there are many such people, and no, our philosophic quarrel is not with them.)

Thank you, Andrew.

Post 8

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 9:59amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
MEM,

Thats a strawman.  You know better.


Post 9

Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 10:01amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Mick,

You seem to know a great deal about multiculturalism, but I venture to guess nothing about 'being Muslim'.


Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.