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Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 6:08pmSanction this postReply
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Juries Require Jurors

The right to a trial by jury requires jurors. Serving on a jury may seem an inconvenience, but compared to what? Anarchy? Civil war? Dictatorship?

I have no sympathy for this man. He was in contempt of court. One can complain about the pay for jury duty, but one can also get subpoenaed to testify as a witness or otherwise be inconvenienced by the valid actions of the government. These inconveniences pale when compared with the alternatives. Complaining about jury duty when the government takes 50% of your money in taxes shows a lack of perspective and doesn't endear principled minimalist politics to otherwise reasonable laymen.

Ted Keer

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Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:30pmSanction this postReply
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It deeply troubles me that so many people have such a negative attitude toward jury duty. It's the only time where you can actually do something that matters.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 7/19, 10:30pm)


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Friday, July 20, 2007 - 1:57pmSanction this postReply
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Idiot.  Doesn't he know you have to be subtle?  You don't just announce that, you pretend to try to hide it.

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Friday, July 20, 2007 - 5:14pmSanction this postReply
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     His 'idiocy' was: given his purpose, his admission that that's what it was; hence, he's now up for perjury re his filled out form. (They might have to prove that he's not a homophobic racist, though; no?)

     I'm of mixed-minds re an enforced requirement for jury duty...especially by ONLY non-felonious 'citizens'; just as I am about subpeonas in general. Especially in the case of juror-'duty' where one is almost routinely directed (at least implicitly, when not explicitly) to ignore judging 'the law' itself applied, but only whether or not the suspect/defendant broke it.

LLAP
J:D


Post 4

Friday, July 20, 2007 - 6:54pmSanction this postReply
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Always had the easy way out of this - "HUH???" [cupping hand over the ear......;-)]

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Monday, July 23, 2007 - 10:07amSanction this postReply
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Juries Require Volunteers

 

Serving on a jury may seem an inconvenience, but compared to what? Anarchy?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_fear

 

An appeal to fear (also called argumentum ad metam or argumentum in terrorem) is a logical fallacy in which a person attempts to create support for his idea by increasing fear and prejudice toward a competitor. The appeal to fear is extremely common in marketing and politics.

 

Logic

 

This fallacy has the following argument form:

 

Either P or Q

Q is fearsome

Therefore, P is true.

 

The argument is invalid. The appeal to emotion is used in exploiting existing fears to create support for the speaker's proposal, namely P. Also, often the false dilemma fallacy is involved, suggesting P is the proposed idea's sole alternative.

 

I'm not afraid of anarchy. Plus, anarchy is not the only alternative. Jurors ought to be paid volunteers. After all, nobody needs to be drafted to have judges and police officers.

 

Complaining about jury duty when the government takes 50% of your money in taxes shows a lack of perspective […]

 

Liberty is more important than a paltry tax on tea.

 

Complaining about jury duty when the government takes 50% of your money in taxes shows a lack of perspective and doesn't endear principled minimalist politics to otherwise reasonable laymen.

 

Being openly atheist doesn't endear principled secular politics to otherwise reasonable Christians.

 

I have no sympathy for this man.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for this man. Alas, c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie. What he does is foolish, but at least he's right.

 

It deeply troubles me that so many people have such a negative attitude toward jury duty. It's the only time where you can actually do something that matters.

 

The only time? Is that hyperbole? Sounds like, "Let's draft all those youngsters into the army so they can do something useful for once in their lazy lives." So productive work doesn't matter?

 

The pursuit of justice matters, but it's obviously not the only thing that matters. If there's nothing produced, there's no need for justice, because everybody will starve anyway.

 

Besides, as every general will tell you, conscripts are useless. Even ignoring morality, it's a fact that forced labor is always inferior to voluntary action. You can't force people to think.

 

By whom will justice be served better, by paid volunteers or by unmotivated conscripts who think of the defendant, "Let's fry that punk, I wanna go home to my wife"?

 




Post 6

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 9:32amSanction this postReply
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I think they should have to pay you your current salary or something based on your last year's tax return.  PLUS expenses.
(Edited by Kurt Eichert on 7/24, 9:32am)


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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 9:39pmSanction this postReply
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They might have to prove that he's not a homophobic racist, though; no?
Ahh, that's easy. Just have him sleep with a gay black man, and ask him in the next morning if he enjoyed it. The solution is just so obvious that I guess it escaped your view.

;-)

Ed
[Sorry for the deliberate thread hijack, Alexander]


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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 10:26pmSanction this postReply
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This man's problem is that he tried to combine too many character defects, particularly the liar part. If you think about it, you can't ever really get away with admitting that you're a liar while also admitting other defects (because you might be lying about those things). If you are going to use the liar cop-out, then you have to combine it with things like: I'm a good citizen, very even-minded, I don't suffer from any mental disorders/deficiencies, I pay my bills, I ...

If you really want something, you've got to think well about it (you have to be rational about it). This man wasn't, and now he's paying the price for his irrationality. I was once a criminal (a vigilante) in my youth, but the difference is that I spent hours masterminding my upcoming "events." And I'm a free man enjoying the lime-light of this forum. That's the difference between this man and me.

At any rate, I think that jurors should be paid at least "time-and-a-half" for their "duty." Jesus Christ, have you seen how much of our money (the millions) that they spend on court-houses!!!

Ed


Post 9

Thursday, August 2, 2007 - 1:59pmSanction this postReply
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     Two questions:

     1) What 'officials' involved with court proceedings are paid LESS than jurors?

     2) Is it not beneficial, 'justice'-wise, that jurors be paid the minimum arguable (for that matter, if anything) for their required time?

LLAP
J:D


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Monday, August 13, 2007 - 9:40pmSanction this postReply
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Under our current tax system, it would seem reasonable that jurors be paid in relation to their taxable wages or income, but no less than minimum wage and no more than the judge's salary, Certainly one could study how the states do it now and make a recommendation based upon the evidence of jury summons compliance and other such factors. This is a matter for legislators to address, one of the few useful things they might actually be doing.

Ted Keer

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