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Post 60

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 2:03pmSanction this postReply
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Fine, you win. Obama's a nifty guy who does not want to redistribute wealth. I feel so much better now!

Post 61

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 2:11pmSanction this postReply
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Ted : No evidence that Cho was a Muslim has come to light, and given that his life has now been examined in detail, no evidence ever will. So all we have to go on is the way he spelled one word. The evidence that he wasn't a Muslim on the other hand is overwhelming, namely that, unlike most Muslims, he never owned a copy of the Koran, never claimed to be a Muslim, was never seen with Muslims, never seen in a Mosque, never talked about Islam, even just before he died. You'd think if he were a Muslim someone would have noticed, or he would have left some evidence in his personal possessions, or diaries, or whatever?

So we have two options, either Cho was the most closeted Muslim of all time, or a weird kid who misspelled a difficult word when writing it on his own arm. Hmm.


1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. * No evidence Obama supports
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. * Both parties support
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. * No evidence Obama supports
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. * No evidence Obama supports (no longer meaningful anyway)
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. * No evidence Obama supports, unless you count the financial bailout, which both parties support
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. * No evidence Obama supports
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. * No evidence Obama supports (no longer meaningful anyway)
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. * No evidence Obama supports
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country. * No evidence Obama supports
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c. * Both major parties support public schools & ban on child labour, no evidence that Obama supports the last point

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Post 62

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 2:13pmSanction this postReply
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Obama said he wants to redistribute, to share the wealth - It is from his mouth. This belief that it's morally acceptable, practical and desirable to do so is a part of socialism. And, this isn't inconsistent with being to the far left of our current crop of senators - he has that as a voting record.

But we don't know how much of a socialist he is because it might be more accurate to say he is just in favor of a mixed economy but with a few definite socialist elements. A friend of my father's ran for local office many years ago and after winning took out an ad in the local paper saying, "To whom it may concern, I will not be held responsible for any statements or promises foolishly made in the heat of the campaign." He was joking, but the point is that we start afresh when judging an office-holder rather than a candidate.

He is now going to be the president. And our role changes. We need to be open to anything he might do that is good and not prejudge him or attack him unreasonably or for things in the past. We are the loyal opposition. Not loyal to the man, but to the requirements of the position and how it should be fulfilled. we need to watch carefully and be ready to fight any moves in that socialist direction that he might support. Our credibility as critics stands upon making judgments that the facts support, that are proportional and that are relevant to now - not his past, which was only relevant when trying to judge him as a candidate.

NOTE: This is not a silly act of chivalry, or out of some misplaced sense of fairness to the other guy - it is to maintain the strongest and most effective criticism. Those who don't will just sound like a bunch of sour grape munchers!




Post 63

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 3:04pmSanction this postReply
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Steve & Ed,

How about just "materialists". I think that distinction fits. Such people are not capitalists.

jt

Post 64

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 3:07pmSanction this postReply
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He is now going to be the president. And our role changes. We need to be open to anything he might do that is good and not prejudge him or attack him unreasonably or for things in the past. We are the loyal opposition. Not loyal to the man, but to the requirements of the position and how it should be fulfilled. we need to watch carefully and be ready to fight any moves in that socialist direction that he might support. Our credibility as critics stands upon making judgments that the facts support, that are proportional and that are relevant to now - not his past, which was only relevant when trying to judge him as a candidate.


Well said!
(Edited by Jeremy B on 11/06, 3:08pm)


Post 65

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 3:11pmSanction this postReply
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Steve,

#62 - good.

jt

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Post 66

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 3:16pmSanction this postReply
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Jeremy,

I'm not a Marxist, I'd describe myself a Burkean conservative at heart, I believe in pragmatism rather than ideology ...
You are a NeoCon. I bet you like David Frum, don't you?

Ed


Post 67

Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 7:48pmSanction this postReply
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Steve W: "He is now going to be the president. And our role changes. We need to be open to anything he might do that is good and not prejudge him or attack him unreasonably or for things in the past. We are the loyal opposition. Not loyal to the man, but to the requirements of the position and how it should be fulfilled. we need to watch carefully and be ready to fight any moves in that socialist direction that he might support. Our credibility as critics stands upon making judgments that the facts support, that are proportional and that are relevant to now - not his past, which was only relevant when trying to judge him as a candidate.

NOTE: This is not a silly act of chivalry, or out of some misplaced sense of fairness to the other guy - it is to maintain the strongest and most effective criticism. Those who don't will just sound like a bunch of sour grape munchers!"

THANK YOU, STEVE. Exactly, dead on.



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Post 68

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:02amSanction this postReply
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Where, Erica, did I say that I am happy that Obama got elected, that people should be happy that Obama got elected, or that the people who are happy that Obama got elected are happy for the right man? (Ted)

Where did I say that you said those things? I know those aren't your viewpoints. (You are, after all the guy who berated all of the third-party voters here for not voting for McCain.)

The response of blacks who wept at his election (and I saw and respect many who did) wept because of their spiritual interpretation of the meaning of his election. There may have been naivete in their ignorance of the evil of the man whom they allowed to be the vehicle of their self-validation. But there was no evil in what it was that they thought they were celebrating. (Ted; bold emphasis mine)

You say there's no evil in what they thought they were celebrating; but they were celebrating because of tribalistic, collectivist racial beliefs. No doubt you'll find me a miserable person, since I don't need Obama (or any other successful black person) to be the "vehicle of my self-validation"? (That sounds like an oxymoron, by the way.)

My point, which I didn't think wouldn't think was so hard to get, is that most of the people who voted for Obama did so not because they support what he truly believes, but because they had projected their personal hopes on him. (Ted)

Ted, your point wasn't "so hard to get"---it was understood even before you presented it here. (None of the Obama supporters I know have a clue what he's all about intellectually; you're right about that.)

So...
The blacks voted for Obama for the reasons I just mentioned, the liberal intellectuals voted for him for the right reasons (they do understand him), the kids voted for him because Jessica Alba and Scarlet Johansson appeared in music videos telling them it was the cool thing to do, and so on.

You say "people projected their personal hopes on him", and that fact should be celebrated.
I say that teeming hordes of ignorants voted for him because they were literally swept away by the image presented to them by the media, and that fact should not be celebrated. 

(Of course, his name does actually makes a really nice-sounding chant--- if one is into chanting, that is. I don't happen to be.)

So sorry if I wasn't clear earlier; I'll try this again:

I find nothing to celebrate about his election; not the fact that he won, nor the reasons he did.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Political Cartoons by Chuck Asay


Post 69

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:08amSanction this postReply
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Oh, and what's this about "compliments" Erica? All I said was that you look pretty glad and hopeful. (Ted)



You know, I'd actually meant for that post to say "undeserved" compliment; apparently we agree (on that point anyway.)


Thanks, John A. and Michael D.   :-)

Ted, I think people are much more socialist than you are claiming. Only 1/5 people who voted for Obama are socialist? Yea right. Maybe 1/5 people understand basic economics and are socialist, and 4/5 don't understand basic economics and are socialist. (Dean)


Brilliant, Dean!

   
Great post #62, Steve.

(Edited by Erica Schulz on 11/10, 6:19am)


Post 70

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 11:50amSanction this postReply
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I liked this quote of George Will, on one of the political changes wrought by the election of Obama, "We are free at last from the inexpressible tedium of the preoccupation with skin pigmentation." But I expect that my liking it is part because he writes so well, and part because I'm at times foolishly hopeful.

Thanks, Erica
"I say that teeming hordes of ignorants voted for him because they were literally swept away by the image presented to them by the media, and that fact should not be celebrated." Well said. I think the 'tears on the faces' is mixed. I suspect that some part is a celebration of this symbolic ending of racism. There are some good people who grew up with the concept of racial oppression being alive and well, and bought into it more deeply than they should have. But the other part of it is just the emotional response marking the end of that collectivist campaign march which was emotional rather than rational in its nature.


(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 11/10, 12:04pm)


Post 71

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 12:05pmSanction this postReply
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Steve quotes George Will:
"We are free at last from the inexpressible tedium of the preoccupation with skin pigmentation."
That won't happen until a person of color as mediocre as George W. Bush can be elected President of the United States.
Thanks,
Glenn


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Post 72

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 12:13pmSanction this postReply
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You mean it hasn"t??? ;-)

Post 73

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 2:18pmSanction this postReply
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My belief is that some people will not let go of the race card ever... They will keep trying to play it again and again. Why? Because it isn't a concern with any underlying truth or justice they seek or even care about, but rather a cheap and dirty grabbing for power through moral intimidation, and to feel superior. Some people are addicted to riding the white charger of moral righteousness. I don't see them giving this up just because their position no longer contains truth, fairness or justice.

Post 74

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 3:02pmSanction this postReply
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No, Robert; it hasn't.

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Post 75

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 3:37pmSanction this postReply
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    "That won't happen until a person of color as mediocre as George W. Bush can be elected President of the United States."

    "You mean it hasn"t??? ;-)"

    "No, Robert; it hasn't."

The issue isn't whether Obama is as "mediocre" as Bush. The issue is whether Obama is as unconcerned with respecting and protecting individual rights as Bush. And by that measure he certainly appears to be his equal - and possibly his superior.

Regards,
--
Jeff

Post 76

Monday, November 10, 2008 - 3:41pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff,
That's certainly an issue, but it's not the one I was discussing.


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Post 77

Friday, November 28, 2008 - 2:14amSanction this postReply
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For lack of a better place to post this, here is a satirical take on BO's pre-election visit to Germany. At least there were a few others that didn't fall for "The Message".

Barack Obama Downfall Satire

Post 78

Friday, November 28, 2008 - 6:27amSanction this postReply
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Has Obama made any comment at all regarding the murders of US citizens and Brits in India this week by Islamofascists? Any comment at all?

Or is he just sitting around salivating at the prospect of pushing auto executives around?


Post 79

Friday, November 28, 2008 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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Teresa,

Both he and Bush made appropriate statements.

jt

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