RoR: Forum

I'm in agreement with Ted. This night is one for many to celebrate. You can't look at the faces of those in Chicago and see anything but gladness and hope.

So, I'll say I'm happy for those who feel great tonight. I am glad that there were very few problems at the polls and the man the people wanted won. America will get what she voted for.

Post 1

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 3:06am

America will get what she voted for.

Indeed.

Post 2

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 3:10am

Steve: I am glad that there were very few problems at the polls.

What that means, is that the Democrats did not complain about polls controlled by Republicans.

We had problems here -- and they went and will go unreported.

I am writing a letter of protest to my city clerk.

I was a precinct poll worker twice in our township here -- we now live in the city.
My wife was a precinct poll worker when we lived in Albuquerque 2002-2003.
We were both appalled at the antics of the workers here.
We both found errors in the official ballots -- candidates in the wrong blocks.
The official state Sample Ballots posted online and at the Polling Place Doors were wrong.
The official state Sample Ballots were incomplete.

So, do not rely on the mass media national news to lull you to sleep in that pot of cold water as the heat slowly comes up.

This ain't the good old days -- less work gets done less competently than before.

Atlas Shrugged is not positive; it is normative: it describes what happens when certain conditions are met. Read Galt's speech. In every place and time, when disvalued, people of ability withdraw. That has consequences that are real and measurable.

Post 3

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 3:15am

Well, excuse me for mourning the death of economic liberty in the USA.

America has elected it's first card carrying Marxist into the White House and I see no call for celebration.

I find the focus on an accident of birth equally disturbing. ABC actually had a correspondent in Kenya. Why? I thought Obama was an American, but I guess not.

I won't be standing for the National Anthem for quite some time.

Post 4

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 4:17am

What Teresa said.

Ed

Post 5

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 5:00am

What Ed said.

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 5:44am

What Ted said.

Of course, I'm not happy with the results, but I keep remembering that it could have been Hillary... and take solace in that.

jt
(Edited by Jay Abbott on 11/05, 5:47am)

Post 7

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 6:03am

Last Sunday I had a one line letter to the editor of the Santa Fe New Mexican published:

"I'm 75 years old. Good luck with your socialist paradise."

Sam

Post 8

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 6:08am

Yes, America!

Yes, my country.

(Edited by Stephen Boydstun on 11/05, 6:14am)

Post 9

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 6:25am

What Stephen said.

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 6:33am

Teresa said:

I won't be standing for the National Anthem for quite some time.

Teresa: nothing's changed yet. Bush is still in office; he's just a bigger lame duck than he was. It will take a long time for the "Marxist" to destroy the economy and civilization as we know it. So, why don't you take a lesson from John McCain's concession speech. The man showed class.

Thanks,
Glenn

Post 11

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 8:01am

I'm totally with Teresa. Should we gracefully give up whatever vestiges of free markets we have in this country? Should I gracefully concede my rights? His past comments and record as a Illinois State Senator do not reflect him as the centrist that he's made himself out to be in his Presidential campaign. Nothing in his short political career suggests he's anything but a Socialist. The constant "achievement" touted by the mainstream media as having elected the first black President is nothing more than ugly collectivism, and not something I would think any Objectivist would partake in such an idiotic celebration. Black people did not win yesterday, Barack Obama did. I believe his goal is to destroy Capitalism, but I agree that he most likely will not succeed. As long as their is a possibility for the Senate to filibuster any radical left-wing legislation I think we should be relatively ok.

We will be in for a rough four years.

Post 12

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 8:55am

There is a great deal of Hero Worship to be witnessed in the Obama's devoted following. The tears of joy that were shed last night were evidence of the sincere belief that their candidate represents the good. Both in the words of his acceptance speech, and in the outpouring of emotion in response to them, we were seeing an America that holds the benevolent universe premise.

But there is danger in Hero Worship. The loyalists who put their faith in the hero will tend to become blind to any of his faults. I've already seen this first-hand in some of my friends. People who were adamantly opposed to faith-based initiatives when they were proposed by Bush accept them passively when supported by their Hero. People who are disgusted at the very idea of corporate welfare seem suddenly to overlook it when practiced by their Hero. Their faith becomes a blind faith; The hero worshipper loses their objectivity, and perceives whatever the hero promotes as the good.

One thing we can do to fight this is to remain objective. Our friends who are so smitten with the president-elect need to be kept from being lulled into a mindless stupor of acceptance. It will be our job to gently (and perhaps not so gently) wake them up, and help them to make strong distinctions and evaluations.

But it is important for us to remain objective, too. If we fall into the trap of portraying their Hero as our Villain, then just as they are blind to his faults, we will be blind to his virtues.

The truth is that some of the policies that Obama will advocate will be truly appalling. Others will be outstanding. The faithful will be unable to see the difference. Those that have cast him as the embodiment of evil will also not be able to make the distinction.

Now more than ever, we will need to be critical in a principled and consistent manner. The culture has taken a wrong turn in my opinion, but can we make a positive difference? Can we promote the right ideas? Can we change minds?

Yes, we can!

Post 13

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 9:11am

Come on people, yes, Obama is undoubtedly the worst candidate we have ever elected president. But does anyone here think his election was a mandate for Marxism? Does anyone here think that even 20% of people who voted for Obama actually knew what his remarks on wealth redistribution and positive rights actually mean? The Black vote for Obama was a vote of self-affirmation. Racist, but out of misguided pride, not because Obama promised to stick it to whitey or round up the Jews.

Whoever Obama is, (a disaster, I expect) the vast majority of those who voted for him did so because they projected their own hopes on to him, not their fears or hatreds. Old black women crying tears of joy did not due so because a Marxist finally won election after all these years.

Put your hopes in the filibuster.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 11/05, 11:50am)

Post 14

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 9:34am

We will need to be more acivist than before. Praise Obama where praise is due, and criticize his policies - or those of the democratic house and senate - when that is due. Loudly denounce and bring as much public pressure as possible into the egregious attempts to push through legislation when they occur. In particular, we cannot let these pass:

Union card check
Fairness Doctirne
Cap & Trade

Post 15

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 9:44am

Ted wrote:

... the vast majority of those who voted for him did so because they projected their own hopes onto him ...

"Keating let himself be carried by the torrent. He needed the people and the clamor around him. There were no questions and no doubts when he stood on a platform over a sea of faces; the air was heavy, compact, saturated with a single solvent--admiration; there was no room for anything else. He was great; great as the number of people who told him so. He was right; right at the number of people who believed it, He looked at the faces, at the eyes; he saw himself born in them, he saw himself being granted the gift of life. That was Peter Keating, that, the reflection in those staring pupils, and his body was only its reflection." --Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

Post 16

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 10:32am

If you are comparing Obama to Keating, Luke, it's an insult to Keating. My argument is about the perhaps naive benignity of the electorate, not about the undeniably vicious nature of the one on whom they have projected their naive hopes.

Post 17

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 10:37am

Ted wrote:

"But does anyone here think his election was a mandate for Marxism?"

I agree that very few people understand what Marxism is as an ideology and fewer still connect what Obama proposes as an expression of Marxism, so no, I do not think that this election was a referendum on Marxism per se. However, there was almost no idea proposed by Obama during the campaign that didn't reek of class warfare, meddling of the government in broad swaths of entire industries (energy for example), increased government control over the economy and redistributing income from areas of wealth to others - all things that people embraced uncritically. In one article, Obama expressed he goal for appointing new Supreme Court Justices who (paraphrasing) "understand what it's like to be poor and black" rather than being concerned about understanding and upholding the Constitution. During the past two years I heard almost no hesitation or speculation over negative consequences of any Obama proposal from any mainstream news outlet or from any of my professional friends, 100% of whom voted for him.

So, while I agree that people don't understand that they were actually voting for Marxism, in fact, they were openly doing so, and they have given Obama and the Congress an emotional if not intellectual mandate to proceed with this agenda. The fact that most people don't have the intellect to see the consequences of Obama's proposals is what will allow the coming programs to be enacted and run until disaster is unavoidable. Yes, I'm afraid America, will indeed get what she voted for. And that is a healthy new dose of Marxism in fact, if not in name.

Kurt writes that we need to be more activist than before making sure that "Union Card Check", "Fairness Doctrine" and
"Cap & Trade" are not enacted. I agree that these are all bad ideas that need to be stopped. Maybe it is just exhaustion over the election, however, like Rand in the waning days of "The Ayn Rand Letter", I'm tired of "swatting flies" and "repeating myself". You can spend your life knocking down this crap only to have another equally bad proposal jump up. It's a perpetual game of whack-a-mole. I'm sick of arguing against one bad proposal after another when they all stem from the same underlying bad premise. It may well be time to actually go on strike and help America really get what she voted for. It's certainly something to think about.

Regards,
--
Jeff

Oops, that's Kurt, not Kirk. Sorry about that. Fixed now. I guess I watched too much Star Trek in my youth! :-)

(Edited by C. Jeffery Small on 11/05, 3:04pm)

Post 18

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 12:42pm

It seemed to me that I had a choice between more imperialism and tyranny or socialism. At least with socialist plans, the money is spent in this country.

Either way, our country is in for a bleak economic future.

Post 19

Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 12:59pm