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Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 7:56amSanction this postReply
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What's "Conscious Capitalism"? Is it like "Compassionate Conservatism"?

Ed


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Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 8:31amSanction this postReply
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Ed T., I don't know. Maybe I can say after seeing it tomorrow.

Maybe Ed H. will post earlier and answer your question.


Post 2

Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 9:33amSanction this postReply
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Yes - you will find it discussed in Patricia Aburdene's Megatrends 2010... it deals with putting 'spirituality' in capitalism... it plays with the 'stakeholder' theory of relationships...

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Post 3

Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 1:22pmSanction this postReply
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Listening to Mackey constantly refer to the Objectivist ethic as "Randian" was so annoying! Even after Ed corrected him (I applauded), he persisted with the "Randian" label.

Mackey and Strong are both convinced that the Objectivist message has failed, so lets misrepresent it further by calling it "Randianism." Lets give up, and surrender to the popular idea that selfishness really is as nasty as everyone thinks it is. Selfishness is the definition of a zero sum model in economics, and holds no warm fuzzy ideas in anyone, right? So lets surrender. We've lost the fight. Give up trying to convince people that rational selfishness produces any worthwhile values.  All is lost on the "selfishness" front. Give it up.

Enter the stolen concept of Conscious Capitalism, which necessarily relies on selfishness while denying it at the same time.  
 
Ed did a fabulous job, and I only wish the program was longer, with more questions and answers.  I'm now only slightly intrigued with Conscious Capitalism.  There's little to no difference between it, and the Capitalism Rand outlined and endorsed that I can see, beside the "otherism" Ed consistantly brought up, and was totally right about in my view.



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Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 2:12pmSanction this postReply
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Listening to Mackey constantly refer to the Objectivist ethic as "Randian" was so annoying! Even after Ed corrected him (I applauded), he persisted with the "Randian" label.
I was annoyed by John Mackey's straw man portrayal of "Randian capitalism" when he contrasted it with "conscious capitalism" near the end. Ed Hudgins rebuked him some about this, but not strongly enough in my opinion.

There is nothing about "accounting profit" and focus on short-term results by Hank Rearden, Dagny Taggart, etc. in Atlas Shrugged. 



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Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 9:38pmSanction this postReply
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I'm guessing the implied message there is that capitalism naturally involves blind ignorance, and we have to inject consciousness into it? What the hell is a conscious economic and political system. Seems like thats a incorrect evaluation of the capabilities of a group right there.

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Post 6

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 5:19amSanction this postReply
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What I have heard about "conscious capitalism" is limited to watching this debate yesterday.  However, the major difference between it and Randian capitalism (or laissez-faire capitalism) as conveyed by the debaters seemed to be what a business executive should be conscious of (attend to). Conscious capitalism says it should be balancing the interests of the owners (shareholders), employees, customers, suppliers and the community. They explicitly rejected government as a stakeholder. Randian capitalism says maximizing long-term shareholder value should be the primary focus. To be successful any business requires the executives also consider the interests of customers, employees, and suppliers. Therefore, "primary" obviously does not mean "only." But if there are trade-offs to be made, the shareholders' interest should be more important.

That still leaves much leeway for either side. Interests must be weighed. Trade-offs must be made. For Randian capitalism the weights given to customers, employees, and suppliers could be a little or a lot, but the shareholders should get the most weight. The panelists favoring conscious capitalism gave no indication whatsoever as to how the balancing should be done.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 8/24, 5:22am)


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Post 7

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 7:54amSanction this postReply
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It's a naked assertion, by the 'conscious capitalists', that Rand's vision of rational self-interest is by definition not aligned with the interests of employees, customers, suppliers and the community, and requires 'balance', because it is 'against' them. Thus, it requires 'balance.'

But, this is 'interests' narrowly defined, as in, 'it is in the best interests of employees that they be paid a lot for working not at all' or 'it is in the best interests of customers that businesses hand out goods and services for free' or 'it is in the best interests of the community that those who share the accident of simultaneous existence be given domain over the value for value transactions of others brought about by the creative exertion of their finite motes of heat and light.'

This comes from a faulty worldview of

1] Economies as 'The Economy', and
2] 'The Economy' as a One Pie World.

Nowhere in factual evidence.

Compromising at all on any of those beliefs does nothing but inhibit the efforts of those who would exert creative effort to bring about value for value transaction--the inhibition of which is not in the rational self interest of employees, customers, or the community(which means, I guess, the balance of folks who are neither employees or customers who share the accidental circumstance of simultaneous co-existence.)

It's like saying "Communist Capitalists," as if the term had meaning.

Religious zealots hurl the word 'community' about like it was some sacred entity, to be worshiped; the very reason we were placed into existence. No matter how many times they re-market and repackage the same sloppy idea, it is the same thing. "Community Conscious Capitalists" -- who agree to communally share dominion over their finite mote of heat and light with as directed by others, one skin/many drivers, is the same old same old.

Rand was clearly a romantic, a strong proposer of 'should be.' And, that is certainly not the same as claiming that all 'capitalists' act per her ideals, or that the practical practice of capitalism(where? I'd sure like to move there...)isn't without its examples of irrationality.

I've argued elsewhere that, for whatever reason, the actual practice of 'capitalism' in America has of late -- decades-- come to be dominated by 'carcass carving capitalism.' That has it's place -- creation via destruction -- but only when it leads to creation. When it comes to dominate 'beast building capitalism' in our economies, then our economies are unsustainable. Even with carcass carving capitalism having its place, all of it -- carcass carving capitalism, parasitism, and even fringe criminality -- all ultimately depend on beast building capitalism, in order to survive. Without the beast building, it should be clear that eventually the bones are going to show.

And, they are.

We should be asking, where have the beast building capitalists gone, and why?

I suspect, they aren't sprinting to seminars to be lectured by camo-commies about 'community consciousness.'





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Post 8

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 9:38amSanction this postReply
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In order for weights, or interests, to be balanced, they must be opposed. They must rest on opposite sides. To view capitalism as a system of balancing interests is to view men's interests as inherently opposed. That is the statist, altruist, and bestial view of man as a creature who eats or is eaten, not the Objectivist view. Capitalism is not a form of moderated negotiated mutual cannibalism.

Post 9

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 10:09amSanction this postReply
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Again based only on the debate, I would not attribute a "statist, altruist, and bestial view of man as a creature who eats or is eaten" to the conscious capitalists. Firstly, they explicitly excluded government as a stakeholder. Also, the sort of balancing they seemed to mean was among the interests of parties who also have strong compatible (or non-opposing) interests.

P.S.: I do think it is unnecessary to include "the community" as a separate interest. Many people of the community would already be considered in their role as employees, customers, and suppliers, potential as well as actual.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 8/24, 10:45am)


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Monday, August 24, 2009 - 10:51amSanction this postReply
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In order for weights, or interests, to be balanced, they must be opposed. They must rest on opposite sides. To view capitalism as a system of balancing interests is to view men's interests as inherently opposed. That is the statist, altruist, and bestial view of man as a creature who eats or is eaten, not the Objectivist view. Capitalism is not a form of moderated negotiated mutual cannibalism.
Exactly!

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Post 11

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:24pmSanction this postReply
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To summarize, Mackey and Strong argued that capitalism has a bad reputation and is depicted as based on selfishness and greed. They suggested a new three-part narrative to communicate the benefits of capitalism: 1) that enterprises have a deeper purpose than profits; 2) that they should be managed not only to maximize shareholder wealth but the wealth of all stakeholders; and 3) that company leadership should not seek primarily their only own selfish interest.

 

I argued that while it’s common sense for businesses to seek relationships with customers, worker, and suppliers that benefit all, stakeholder theory holds many dangers.

 

*First is the problem of orienting one’s self first to what others might want rather than one’s own needs and goals. This sounds like a Peter Keating trying to get inside the heads of others all the time rather than figuring out what he wants and going for it.

 

*Second, Mackey and Strong both emphasized that the best entrepreneurs go into business with a vision beyond just making money (implying making money at any costs). See, for example, a Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. But entrepreneurs with vision often have to act contrary to the interests of would-be stakeholders. As Howard Roark said, “I don’t build in order to have clients. I have clients in order to build.” He wouldn't build colonial mansions, customers and stakeholders be damned.

 

*Third, in a competitive market or in tough economic times, entrepreneurs must often disappoint some stakeholders—dumping costly suppliers and contracting with others, perhaps overseas suppliers—in order to keep customers. Whole Foods has a market niche for folks who can pay more for organic food. But Walmart couldn’t keep its customers, who more often seek good return for their money, by operating that way.

 

*And fourth, stakeholder rhetoric can undermine the premises of private property rights; it implies that because the interests of all stakeholders are connected, all stakeholders should have a say in how businesses are run, enforced by government and overriding property rights. This outcome is not what Mackey and Strong advocate. But ideas have a logic of their own and this outcome is what the substitution of the notion of stakeholders for property rights holders implies.

 

By the way, a note on the debate: They were changing the format around right up to the moment we went on stage so I had to rearrange my remarks quickly. They might have flowed better with the original format.

 




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Post 12

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:42pmSanction this postReply
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They don't like the term "Capitalism" and think it has a bad name. Well, I'd be happy if they picked a completely different name instead of putting an adjective in front of it. They are stealing the concept of free enterprise while putting some other guiding principle in charge. Did anyone ask who, if not the state, would be in charge of making sure the "stakeholders" were looked after? And wouldn't that government agency be the one that would end up defining who was a stakeholder.

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Post 13

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 12:52pmSanction this postReply
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Mackey and Strong believe that entrepreneurs should voluntarily adopt this "stakeholder" philosophy. They believe that in the end it will mean more profits for owners and everybody else, a win-win situation all around, which is one of the benefits of the free market. They argue that companies run on the philosophy of Conscious Capitalism will perform better than other companies. (Fine, let various management approaches be tested in the free market!) But my argument, as stated above, is that stakeholder philosophy--a collectivist approach in most of its forms--leads to government intervention.

Rob Bradley, who was on the panel with me, also pointed out that Mackey sees protecting the environment as part of Conscious Capitalism. That would read in the entire extremist eco-cult agenda.

I thanked Mackey for trying to explain the benefits of free markets, which he actually does fairly well, to a group that is woefully ignorant about them--his own Whole Food customers. Whole Foods in DC is Obama-Central!


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Post 14

Monday, August 24, 2009 - 6:42pmSanction this postReply
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Lot's of discussion of "balance" here. Most people caught on that if you try to balance two incommensurable values, you have no rational way of choosing. Want to make profits? Or do you want to help stake-holders? How can you choose? If a CEO pours all of the company profits into "the community", is he "balancing" it? Is half and half right? There's no way to know.

The right idea, described in Merlin's post #6, is to seek one goal as primary. If other goals can be integrated with it, such as making your customers happy, then that's great. If they can't, like stake-holders demanding the right to loot your profits for their own ends, you reject them.

An article I wrote in the past:
http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Rowlands/Balance_vs_Integration.shtml

Discussions the fallacy of "balancing" two opposing values, and shows how only an integrated value can be pursued rationally.

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Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 8:43amSanction this postReply
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There are two quite different cases of "balancing" used here. The one introduced by Fred (post 7) and Ted (post 8) is at a systemic or societal level and emphasizes opposing interests.  The other is at the level of a single firm -- the firm's executives having to decide what goals to pursue and to allocate the firm's resources. The latter seems mainly what the conscious capitalists meant. Like I said in post 9 the different parties also have strong compatible (or non-opposing) interests.

I reject the conscious capitalist's notion that the "community" is a legitimate stakeholder. In practical terms the community is usually represented by government. That is dangerous, e.g. BO representing ACORN. Also as I said in post 9 people of the community would already be considered in their role as employees, customers, and suppliers, potential as well as actual.

A pretty simple example of the kind of balancing, or allocation of resources, at the firm level is the following. Does the firm allocate a part of its spending on (1) additional marketing to get more sales, (2) R&D to make easy to implement improvements to its existing line of products or services, or (3) R&D to develop totally new products or services that won't increase revenues until years later?  Or is it some mix of these? Another might be does it hire more employees to work with current production methods or spend money on capital equipment to improve production methods and requires fewer employees? Decisions like this affect customers, employees, suppliers and the firm's owners.

In my view maximizing long-term profits is the proper primary goal. But even that leaves a lot of leeway. Assume two alternative projects, only one financially viable, something like (2) and (3) above. With X expected profits are moderate but begin immediately. With Y profits are deferred for a few years but are higher thereafter. Perhaps on a present value basis profits are higher with Y. But they could easily be less certain than with X. And perhaps Y entails incurring some debt that X does not. How does the firm's executives choose? Maximizing long-term profits may not offer a unique solution.


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Post 16

Friday, August 28, 2009 - 2:38pmSanction this postReply
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I'm reading the latest issue of The New Individualist (summer 2009). It includes an article about conscious capitalism.  Some excerpts:
John Mackey often uses the phrase "the common good" in his speeches and essays. This led T.J. Rogers to parody Mackey's position as: "How Business and Profit Making Fit into My Overarching Philosophy of Altruism (Reason magazine debate, 2005).
"The Good", in Michael Strong's ideal world, is serving anyone except one's self.
The latter is not written as a quote from Strong. But if that is Strong's view, then Strong's view is corrupted.



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Post 17

Friday, July 30, 2010 - 5:13pmSanction this postReply
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Due to the recent thread on FreedomFest 2010, I'm revisiting this video. My first remark is in response to this quote by Michael Strong:

There are sophisticated Randians who talk about selfishness in a way that includes beneficence as a virtue. David Kelley has a ... is a part of that movement. We respect that. [But] I think there's a shallow version of Randian Capitalism that's problematic.
I want to know where the shallow Objectivists are. Strong doesn't mention any names -- he just says that there are these shady, shallow people out there in the dark corners of the world; these shady, shallow Randian Objectivists who would trample on children for fun or profit.

Where are they?

Ed


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Post 18

Friday, July 30, 2010 - 6:11pmSanction this postReply
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John Mackey said that Randian Capitalism focuses on:

A--profits
B--only shareholders winning
C--the short term
D--"zero-sum" dynamics
E--self-interest
F--conflicts of interest
G--tradeoffs

... and that Conscious Capitalism focuses on:

A--purpose
B--everybody (all "stakeholders") winning, all of the time
C--the long term
D--win-win-win-win scenarios (where we all win, all of the time)
E--"holism"
F--harmony of interest
G--"synergies"

He then went on to equivocate Randian Capitalism with the version of capitalism (the pull-peddling mixed economy) that we have today -- citing that "it" is hated.

Not only is he wrong about Objectivism, he's a utilitarian.

Ed

p.s. Not convinced? Read my essay on the 4 main human ethics.

:-)


Post 19

Sunday, August 1, 2010 - 11:02amSanction this postReply
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The theory of Conscious Capitalism touted by Mackey & Strong rests on blaming the poor, public acceptance of capitalism on a "poor marketing" of capitalism (as an idea). According to Mackey & Strong, what is needed for capitalism to get to be more accepted by the public is to market it based on the tribal premise ("stakeholder theory") using the altruist morality.

Here's a quote from CUI ("What is Capitalism?"; p. 30) that explodes the whole theory of Conscious Capitalism:

****************
Thus, what existed in practice, in the nineteenth century, was not pure capitalism, but variously mixed economies. Since controls necessitate and breed further controls, it was the statist element of the mixtures that wrecked them; it was the free, capitalist element that took the blame.

Capitalism could not survive in a culture dominated by mysticism and altruism, by the soul-body dichotomy and the tribal premise. No social system (and no human institution or activity of any kind) can survive without a moral base. On the basis of the altruist morality, capitalism had to be—and was—damned from the start.

****************

Ed

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