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Post 60

Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 9:56pmSanction this postReply
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Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.

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Post 61

Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 5:17amSanction this postReply
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Daniel,

I don't speak french, but I am familiar enough with the great quotes of history to know this one (paraphrased: Give me 6 sentences from anyone and I will find in them a reason to hang him).

This, as you may have already been thinking about, provides the "prior probability" in a Bayesian argument wherein the probability of someone needing to be hanged is linked to the frequency of bad sentences -- frequencies greater than 1 out of 6 being good reasons to hang someone.

That's another thing I like about Bayesian thinking, it's 100% amoral. Without objective morality as a guide, you can literally argue for cutting peoples' heads off. This is because -- as was shown in the Pragmatism link at the Ayn Rand Lexicon -- Bayesians unquestionably adopt whatever moral code that is currently in use by large numbers of folks. A jihadi Bayesian, then, would form good (good by Bayesian standards) arguments for wiping out infidels.

Neat! If only Bayesian thinking were around in Hitler's day ...

Ed


Post 62

Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 7:53amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

I have to say that I disagree with the point in your above post, because I happen to have at hand at least one rather definite example of someone who uses Bayesian reasoning, but who has questioned, and continues to question, morality extensively, and has not adopted the same moral code used by 'large numbers of folks'.

Perhaps it might help you to understand Bayesian reasoning if you were to think of it as occuring primarily on the level of metaphysics and epistemology. Even Objectivist reasoning on those levels have little, if anything, to say directly about ethics. The introduction of a moral standard happens /after/ those two levels, and it is entirely possible for a Bayesian reasoner to adopt the same ethical standard as Objectivists, ie "their own life". With a slightly different way of reasoning about how to achieve that goal, there will be certain differences in how a Bayesian goes about trying to /accomplish/ that goal - ie, see our previous discussion on health care - but that does not mean they have no ethical standard at all. To say that seems roughly equivalent to a Christian saying that "Someone who doesn't share my moral standard has no standard at all," which, I think you would agree, does not necessarily follow.



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Post 63

Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 3:24pmSanction this postReply
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Daniel,

... on the level of metaphysics and epistemology. Even Objectivist reasoning on those levels have little, if anything, to say directly about ethics.
Boy, do you ever not know what you are talking about!

What's funny is not just how wrong you are, but how cocky you are (while being wrong). It's really not that hard to study Objectivism now, now that the Ayn Rand Lexicon is online. There is really no excuse for you to make such bold and wrong statements -- other than your snide and blinding over-confidence -- about Objectivism when it is now so very easy to look it up (knowing a particular philosophy has actually never been as easy as it is to know Objectivism now). 

It begs the question that you might be willfully ignorant (i.e., an evader). If you study Objectivist ethics more (and I won't be holding my breath on that one), then you will understand that the metaphysical fact that something is, determines (or "informs") what it is supposed to do. Here, in less than 10 seconds searching (the small thing that you could have done, but didn't), is the relevant entry online:

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/is-ought_dichotomy.html

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 12/30, 3:28pm)


Post 64

Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 4:19pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, I hope you're having fun. I gave up when it wasn't fun anymore. I especially enjoyed your (raised finger) however.

Post 65

Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 6:17pmSanction this postReply
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Sometimes Curtis, I appreciate what it is that obstinate people can do for me in my life and in my thinking.

After all, it is on the backs of folks like Daniel where I cut my intellectual teeth -- and was forced into the noble suffering of extensive personal and philosophical reflection. I though, like you (and anyone), do get tired when it's someone who is obviously a time-vampire.

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 12/31, 5:09am)


Post 66

Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 6:10amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

The good editor Teresa has mentioned that "dissent belongs in the dissent forum", so if you wish this conversation to continue, please start a new thread there so that I can respond to it without worrying about violating board policy. 'Salright? Thanks.

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