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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:06amSanction this postReply
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Hogwash

You should be afraid of dying as it is the destruction of your existence.  Anything that threatens your existence rightly creates a fear in you to compell you to avoid that thing.  Death is the end of your capacity to value, there is nothing corageous about welcoming non-existence.  Courage is facing existence for eternity.

Michael F Dickey


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:08amSanction this postReply
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You should be afraid of dying as it is the destruction of your existence. 
Fear of the inevitable is a waste of time and energy.  I prefer to spend my time living, rather than contemplating death.

SmS


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:11amSanction this postReply
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I'm definitely afraid of dyeing. If I launder some coloureds in with Sarah's whites, there will be hell to pay.


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:15amSanction this postReply
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Fraser,

I do believe that is a declaration of war. En garde.

Sarah

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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:27amSanction this postReply
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Quite correct, Summer - death is merely the conclusion to the plot of your life, and it is the flourishing of your life which is of prime importance...
(Edited by robert malcom on 10/28, 9:28am)


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:32amSanction this postReply
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Michael that's how you interpreted my quote.
That will not change its meaning.
Those who know will understand!
Ciro


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 9:37amSanction this postReply
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Sarah please explain?

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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:22amSanction this postReply
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Ciro, you need to change "dyeing" to "dying."

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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:24amSanction this postReply
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Ciro,

Alluding to the warmongering thread.

Sarah

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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:30amSanction this postReply
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Thanks Luke.

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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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You should be afraid of dying as it is the destruction of your existence. 
Fear of the inevitable is a waste of time and energy.

That is the classic way to justify doing nothing about a problem, assume there is nothing you can do about it.

Energy and the patterns of atoms sustain our existence, having plenty of energy and the ability to control the arrangement of atoms would grant us indefinate life spans.  It is not against the laws of physics to live indefinately.  The fact that so many people accept death so naturally and willingly and concede any progress they might make against it is why it aging has not all ready been defeated.  When you philosophically accept death as OK you give up willingly that which is allegedly your highest value.

This has been discussed previously only SOLO, so feel free to peruse all the pro-death and pro-life points.

http://solohq.com/Forum/ArticleDiscussions/1166.shtml#7

Michael F Dickey


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:39amSanction this postReply
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Quite correct, Summer - death is merely the conclusion to the plot of your life, and it is the flourishing of your life which is of prime importance
I prefer the never ending stories.  Life is not a 'plot', it is your existence.  It is an end of it's own.  Which is why I whole heartedly agree that the flourishing of your life is of prime importance. 

Michael F Dickey


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:55amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

When you philosophically accept death as OK you give up willingly that which is allegedly your highest value.


Death isn't a philosophical concept to be either accepted or rejected, it's (currently) an immutable fact.  If you wish to spend precious time cowering from it, be my guest.


This has been discussed previously only SOLO, so feel free to peruse all the pro-death and pro-life points.

 
Pro-death?  You're really fond of  hyperbole, aren't you...

Summer
 
Edit:  spelling
 

(Edited by Summer Serravillo on 10/28, 10:59am)


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:11pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Summer,
Death isn't a philosophical concept to be either accepted or rejected, it's (currently) an immutable fact. 
For a philosophical acceptance of death I suggest you read some of Robert Malcom's posts in the thread I linked.  Variations of the 'death give meaning to life' theme abound and that is certainly and fundmentally a philosophical sign of approval. 
If you wish to spend precious time cowering from it, be my guest.

Perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by 'cowering' and how exactly  that describes me. 

Is spending time, effort, and money trying to fight a disease such as cancer 'cowering' from that disease?  How is that any different than spending time, effort, or money fighting senescence or death in general? 

It was once an immutable fact that men could not fly or live underwater or go to the moon, and the concept of whether men would be able to do that was fundamentally accepted or rejected philosophically by people.  Those who rejected men's capacity and potential to overcome those tremendous odds were the ones that did absolutely nothing but slow progress down.  The ones that accepted axiomatically that it was possible were the ones that eventually achieved it.

Michael F Dickey


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:26pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,


If you wish to spend precious time cowering from it, be my guest.

 
Perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by 'cowering' and how exactly  that describes me. 
Your own words:  "You should be afraid of dying as it is the destruction of your existence.  Anything that threatens your existence rightly creates a fear in you to compell you to avoid that thing."


Is spending time, effort, and money trying to fight a disease such as cancer 'cowering' from that disease?  How is that any different than spending time, effort, or money fighting senescence or death in general? 
No, and I never suggested it was.  But spending time and effort to fight disease and extending life (perhaps indefinitely) doesn't require a fear of death. 

It was once an immutable fact that men could not fly or live underwater or go to the moon, and the concept of whether men would be able to do that was fundamentally accepted or rejected philosophically by people.  Those who rejected men's capacity and potential to overcome those tremendous odds were the ones that did absolutely nothing but slow progress down.  The ones that accepted axiomatically that it was possible were the ones that eventually achieved it.
Nothing I said challenged the possibility that man may, one day, have the ability to cure all disease and extend life indefinitely. And neither did  I ever say that the pursuit of such was a waste of time.  What I did say -- and what I still maintain is true -- is that to fear death is a waste.  That doesn't mean that I'm in a hurry to die, or that I view death as a "good" thing.  It's simply a thoroughly rational acceptance of reality.

Summer

Post Scriptum:  I need to catch a train, so if you wish to continue this discussion, I may not be able to respond 'til tomorrow morning.  Ciao. 




 



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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:29pmSanction this postReply
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When you philosophically accept death as OK you give up willingly that which is allegedly your highest value

No one ever accepts death as OK.

What really defines how you are going to live is how you are with knowing you are going to die. The deeply spiritual (and no, I'm not talking about being convinced dying is OK because you're going to heaven and lie down with the lion and the lamb and see grandpa again) are ones who seem to manage to not have anxiety about death. In other words, they live without the anxiety interfering with their lives.

Death is part of the cycle, without it, there is no cycle. But, like Joseph Campbell said- "The action's down here."

r


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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:30pmSanction this postReply
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I think the spirit of Ciro's quote is spot-on, but I'd amend it slightly. Rational people should fear death not as an abstraction, but as a reality. Don't step in front of buses. If you get cancer, fight that shit to the end. But that does not mean that rational people should live IN fear in a general sense. To spend any prolonged amount of time contemplating the inevitable ... and contemplating the end of contemplation ... is a waste of the energy and resources necessary for a lifelong pursuit of values. It may be morbidly fun in adolescence, and morbidly fascinating, but in the end it is something to grow out of. "A man looks into the abyss and sees nothing staring back. That's when man finds his character. And that's what keeps him from jumping into the abyss." Something like that.
(Edited by Jamie Kelly
on 10/28, 1:32pm)


Post 17

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:37pmSanction this postReply
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Men fear death as children fear to go in the dark; and as that natural fear in children is increased by tales, so is the other.


Francis Bacon



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Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:39pmSanction this postReply
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"A man looks into the abyss and sees nothing staring back. That's when man finds his character.
Bravo Jamie!


Post 19

Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:59pmSanction this postReply
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It's definitely something that you wear everyday, whether as outer or undergarment. I know no person who, no matter how happy, doesn't occasionally have a "mortality moment". I think it's the psyche's way of keeping our shit straight. I'm not much into old saws, but "live every day as if it were your last" is not a bad way to go at it.

Without all the running up of credit cards, killing off those on the enemies list, drugs, alcohol, and so on... :)


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