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Wednesday, July 8, 2009 - 9:24amSanction this postReply
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I disagree with hate crimes legislation also, but I think Camille overstates the case here, or at least uses imprecise wording. Motivation can matter when determining whether a killing is a premeditated first degree murder, a "heat of the moment" second degree murder, manslaughter, an accidental death, or justified self-defense.

The difference between all these and hate crimes, though, is that these distinctions above delve into whether the person initiated force, and if so, whether they intended to commit the act, and if so, how cold-blooded they were in committing the offense. All of this should be relevant, since it determines whether the person believes in the NIOF (Non-Initiation of Force) principle, and if not, how likely they are to repeat their acts.

Hate crimes legislation, however, tries to determine whether a person harbored malignant thoughts against a person in a politically powerful class. It thus introduces the notion that people who have a lobby that has curried sufficient favor with the political elite deserve to be treated differently under the law. It is a thoughtcrime.

That is, it attempts to codify into law racism, sexism, etc. Or, from Orwell's "Animal Farm", "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."

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Wednesday, July 8, 2009 - 11:06pmSanction this postReply
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Right. Assuming a cold-blooded murder, what difference does it make whether the murderer did it out of jealousy or because he hated the person's race, ethnicity or sexual preference? The victim is just as dead in either case.

I suppose it could be argued that a person who murders out of bigotry is more likely to repeat the crime than someone who murders out of jealousy, so that the punishment should be more severe in the former case in order to serve as a stronger deterrent. But I would think that cold-blooded murder deserves an especially severe sentence anyway -- something approaching life in prison.

- Bill

Post 2

Thursday, July 9, 2009 - 12:03amSanction this postReply
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Congress has a new hate crimes bill they want to pass (S. 909). It is an addition to Title 18 and will further the federalization of law enforcement. It adds Interstate Commerce clauses to include any "channels, or facilities" that permit interstate distribution of hate speech. Anyone that distributes hate speech via internet, email, radio or TV that 'results' in violence can be seen as a 'principal' to the act. That may be an exaggerated reading of the language, but that language is to vague to pin down well enough to say it couldn't be used this way - and I suspect that was the intent.

The liberals (Senator Leahy is the main sponsor) know quite well what so few others do - that all hate crime legislation is really the beginnings of thought and speech control.

- This bill violates the states rights (10th amendment) by giving the feds a way to takeover state crimes
- It violates the 14th amendment (due process) - it makes the same crime committed by one a member of one race different than if committed by another race (same with gender). Attorney General Holder repeatedly admitted S. 909 gives preference to a minority over the majority.
- It stretches the interstate commerce clause so far that it is absurd and removes any reason to object the federalizing anything.
- I suspect that it will be used to violate freedom of speech

Post 3

Thursday, July 9, 2009 - 12:16pmSanction this postReply
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Steve, I'll bet the first abuse of any such law will be to prosecute someone disreputable like Lew Rockwell when some listener or reader of his commits a crime against someone he criticizes. You know, the kind of right-wing hate-speech Mike Marotta used to warn us about. Only after that succeeds will they use this type of law to intimidate mainstream people like Rush Limbaugh.


Post 4

Thursday, July 9, 2009 - 1:06pmSanction this postReply
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...and won't that bring in all the high-powered lawyers, the very ones the Admin. would NOT want fighting their case?

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Thursday, July 9, 2009 - 3:57pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

I'm sure that they wouldn't pick anyone with a large popular following to test out the new law. When they get ready to ramp up the attack, they would probably go after the radio station owners, or the sponsors, for the lesser right-wing talk hosts - and it might take the form of "investigations" rather than a nice clean trial - they could coordinate that with hearings on the various licensing issues, localism, diversity interest broadcasting, and public service requirements.

Post 6

Thursday, July 9, 2009 - 4:02pmSanction this postReply
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I expect it will be someone like Rockwell who has a moderate following but who can be plausibly tarred with racism or some such based on comments in the public record. Rockwell doesn't seem very careful about anti-semitic comments. This will be just big enough a fish to send a message and just little enough a fish to land the catch.

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