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Friday, February 24, 2012 - 5:44pmSanction this postReply
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This whole apology thing bothers me. It is not American policy to burn the Koran. It wasn't done on purpose, so to me, the whole apology thing is wrong. It should have been only a short, to the point, explanation, not an apology - and given by the military commander of the area - not the state department or the President. Some books were burned that we didn't intend to burn. Period.

It is also very hypocritical as Professor Machan said. Why isn't it seen as crazy for us to be apologizing for accidental book burning, while no one is apologizing for the calls to kill Americans, or for the two Americans killed so far, or for the past killing and beheading of Americans... or for burning down of churches with people still in them as they have done in Egypt?

Tonight, someone on the news pointed out that this smacks of appeasing terrorism. We, in effect, reward the bad behavior of the rioters by continuing the apologies. It feels like a peculiar kind of emotional reaction where politically correct stances are irrationally maintained. If an Islamic group is rioting, then the emotional reaction is that American needs to apologize or appease or offer justifications.

If the Koran is burned accidentally then Americans should be killed? If a cartoonist depicts Mohammed, then he must be killed? If a woman commits adultery then she must be stoned to death? That isn't a religion worthy of respect, it is a despicable and inhuman creed that should be stamped out. Doesn't it strike anyone else as absurd that the least tolerant or worthwhile of creeds is being offered the most respect?

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Friday, February 24, 2012 - 8:50pmSanction this postReply
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Kind of reminds me of chamberlain's method of appeasment of Hitler.
It didn' t work out so well...

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Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 7:16amSanction this postReply
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From what I understand, the books were burned because detainees were using them to write messages to one another.  They were writing in them to communicate, that's why they were burned. 


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Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 11:42amSanction this postReply
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Teresa,

Yes, that's what I heard - that detainees were writing in them. And that it is a form of desecration to write in them. Why no calls from the fundamentalists to kill those detainees?

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Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 4:16pmSanction this postReply
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TSI: From what I understand, the books were burned because detainees were using them to write messages to one another.  They were writing in them to communicate, that's why they were burned.

SW: And that it is a form of desecration to write in them.
  
You may be right.  I could not validate the assertion that writing in the Qu'an is ipso facto desecration.  You can write in the Bible or the Torah.  Notes, amendments, emendations, etc., are fine.  American families often kept geneaologies in their Bibles, the one book the family owned.  So, I am not sure.


The protests began after NATO troops recently burned Qurans at Bagram Airfield. The burnings sent throngs of protesters to the streets and military bases, some chanting, "Death to America."
 A military official said the materials burned were removed from a detainee center's library because they had "extremist inscriptions" on them and there was "an appearance that these documents were being used to facilitate extremist communications."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/25/world/asia/afghanistan-burned-qurans/index.html

However,  I my internet searches took me among other places to the Times of India.  I started relying on them during the first Gulf War.  It is English language news from an independent source.  (If you think that Fox is independent of the White House, turn in your aluminum foil beanie.)  Anyway, nothing in that source referred to the claim that the Qu'rans were used to transfer messages between detainees. This seems to be the new current claim. 

The US commander in Afghanistan, General John Allen, apologised and ordered an investigation into the incident, admitting that religious materials, including Korans "were inadvertently taken to an incineration facility". Allen and US deputy defence secretary Ashton Carter called on Afghan President Hamid Karzai today to apologise again for the incident at Bagram airbase north of Kabul, the president's office said.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/Quran-protests-8-killed-as-Afghan-burns/articleshow/11999076.cms

Even if the claim that the Qu'rans contained messages between prisoners, would they not be secured into an evidence lock-up?  Besides, after the previous round of protests and deaths over the burning of a Qu'ran in Florida, would the people in charge not be more attentive??  We all make mistakes, and this seems to be yet another...

  
That said, Newton really went after Leibnitz with a vengeance.  But no one started a war over it, even though English physics suffered for a century.  And Einstein denied quantum theory all his life.  No one burned any books or threw hand grenades into pubs where Heisenberg's students hung out. (Though there was a plot hatched at the University of Michigan to assassinate Heisenberg to prevent a German atomic bomb ..;. improbable as that might seem... )  The problem is not Islam. The problem - if it is "a" problem - is religion, of course.  Beyond that it matters which religion we are talking about and the Abrahamics have a poor record.  Back in 2008, I attended a teaching by Tenzin Gyatso, the "Dalai Lama."  He was a nice guy, very open-minded.  I know that Shinto Buddhism was the state religion of Japan during its fascist period.  Can't win 'em all... 

Anyway, in terms of realpolitik, the best course was run ten years ago: use air power to bomb the daylights out of Taliban training camps; use special forces to erase them in Malaysia and the Philippines and then get back to business as usual.

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 2/25, 4:27pm)


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Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 5:35pmSanction this postReply
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Even if the claim that the Qu'rans contained messages between prisoners, would they not be secured into an evidence lock-up?
The report I heard said that the people doing the burning were under the belief that burning was the proper way to handle copies of the Koran that had been defiled.

I have no idea if any of these reports are accurate or not. And I really don't care, because this entire business of attempting to appease barbarians leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
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We all make mistakes, and this seems to be yet another...
There is a terrible case of moral relativism involved in examining this as if it's a mistake we should take seriously in the light of the atrocities being committed by the fundamentalists.

(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 2/25, 5:40pm)


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Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 6:14pmSanction this postReply
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The problem is not Islam. The problem - if it is "a" problem - is religion, of course

Islam is a religion and more broadly religion is the problem

Post 7

Saturday, February 25, 2012 - 7:19pmSanction this postReply
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Religion IS a problem... but compared to the other religions, Islam is uniquely awful - it is a tyrannical political system built out of a religious justification.

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Post 8

Sunday, February 26, 2012 - 12:06amSanction this postReply
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Whose Korans were they? If they were the prisoners', then the prisoners as enemy combatants surrendered their rights to them, in which case, the books then became the property of the soldiers who burned them. If own a flag, I have a right to burn it, no matter how offensive it may be to those who revere its symbolism; the same for a book, religious or otherwise.

If U.S. soldiers had burned copies of Mein Kampf during the Second World War, would FDR have apologized to the Nazis? If they had burned The Communist Manifesto during the Korean or Vietnam War, would Eisenhower or Kennedy have apologized to the Marxists? Then why is President Obama apologizing to the Muslims for our soldiers' burning of the Koran?

Regardless of the reasons for the soldiers' action, it was just as much an expression of free speech as the printing of the Koran was. If Muslims have a right to print the Koran, then non-Muslims have a right to burn it if it's their property. The Muslim protestors who are working themselves into a violent frenzy over the soldiers' exercise of free speech do not, of course, believe in that uniquely Western principle. Is that why President Obama feels they deserve an apology?

Why doesn't he demand an apology from the Afghan government for the retaliatory murders of the two military officers? Why doesn't he stand up for the principle of freedom instead of for the religious sensibilities of Islamic zealots? Is it because he doesn't really believe in that principle himself?

(Edited by William Dwyer on 2/26, 12:09am)


Post 9

Monday, February 27, 2012 - 6:13pmSanction this postReply
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I think we should have a national burn the koran day held on Sept. 11.
Not as a way to instill hatred or religeous intolerance but as a show of solidarity against terrorism because lets face it only the islamofascist zealots are going to be the ones complaining. So be it at least they will be easier to target....any rational person would understand and say to themselves "who cares it is jussst a book".
Obamullah can then be apologetic to them for the millions of books that would surely be burned.

Post 10

Monday, February 27, 2012 - 11:50pmSanction this postReply
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Why stop there? On September 11, let's burn the Bible, too... and Kant's Critique of Pure Reason... and all of Plato, and Dewey, and Marx, and The Man from UNCLE. Apparently, also, we would need to join the Weatherman Underground in destroying all copies of The Thinker by Rodin. (Admittedly, I offered debate on that, but the official party line is that The Thinker is anti-life.)
(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 2/28, 12:01am)


Post 11

Monday, February 27, 2012 - 11:55pmSanction this postReply
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Michael my whole post was sarcasm and was ment to lampoon Obama for being apologetic when he should not have been.

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