About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Monday, October 1, 2007 - 3:30pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Wow - these are exceptional. This actually gives me a bit of hope for the Atlas movie. Maybe this guy will get a gig with them ;)

As an aside, what are the copyright issues on this? I wonder if Piekoff knows about this.


Post 1

Monday, October 1, 2007 - 5:10pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I think this falls under "fair use."   Kinda like a John Galt Cover Band, sorta thing.  


Post 2

Monday, October 1, 2007 - 6:11pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I'm not an expert on copyright law. But while I enjoy the cleverness and creativity here, I have to say that it's probably a copyright violation. It takes as its source copyrighted material -- Rand's actual words -- and adapts them for another public medium.

The rights to publicly circulated adaptations of fiction works belong to the copyright holder.



Post 3

Monday, October 1, 2007 - 8:52pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Galt's speech is longer than many books...

Post 4

Monday, October 1, 2007 - 11:08pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
And it's probably the best philosophical treatise written in some time, tbh.

-- Brede

Post 5

Monday, October 1, 2007 - 11:40pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Probably?

Post 6

Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - 3:17amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Robert,

We quote Rand's stuff here on RoR all of the time.  Rand's stuff is quoted all over the internet, all over the world, all of the time.

This is what the US Copyright Office says:

The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author's observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”
 
I'm not at all sure where the lines are drawn. For the time being, I'll give the YouTube guy the benefit of the doubt. 


Post 7

Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - 6:38amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Teresa, as the cited passage about copyright law suggests, "fair use" of copyrighted material involves either relatively brief quotations, as in reviews or discussion forums, or -- if the material is copied extensively -- reproduction only for personal use, as with teachers in a classroom setting, students, scholars, or writers using the material for research or study in private.

An adaptation or dramatization of a fiction work, in whole or in part, for public presentation does not fit within these guidelines. The copyright violations at issue are several:

* Loss of direct compensation: failure to pay the copyright owner for an adaptation of his work (i.e., stealing). This is true whether or not the person violating the copyright seeks paying customers for his own presentation of it (just as it is still "stealing" if you take something from someone's house, even if you then give it away).

* Loss of future income opportunities: potential deprivation of the copyright owner of income he might have derived from the eventual commercial sale of the same rights. (Why should anyone buy the YouTube or dramatization rights from the owner if the material is already publicly available in dramatized form?)

* Reputation: potential damage to the copyright holder's reputation if an unauthorized or distorted rendition of his work is circulated. (An artist's right to control the quality and presentation of his own material.)

* Loss of property-rights protections: Allowing the material to enter "the public domain" without legal objection is generally regarded under the law as a de facto surrender of the copyright protection.

I have no doubt that the person doing this is a well-meaning fan. And if the fellow limits his presentation to the few "outtakes" of Galt's speech that he's posted so far -- which amount merely to excerpts -- he might not get in trouble.

But if he plans an ambitious, ongoing dramatized rendition of the entire speech, he's courting a copyright-infringement lawsuit, his "good intentions" notwithstanding.

Incidentally, while I have no inclination (and certainly no time) to discuss patents and copyrights, I subscribe to the general view of them put forth by Ayn Rand in her article on this topic. I emphatically disagree with those libertarians and anarchists who deny the validity of legal protections for intellectual property -- i.e., who reduce all property claims to the physical objects themselves, but not to the intellectual or creative component of that property.

To the contrary, I argue that virtually ALL property claims are rooted in, or derived from, the intellectual or creative element -- in what the property owner has creatively added to the physical object, and not merely the physical object itself. But that's a topic for another time and place.


Post 8

Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - 8:18amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that in one of Greenspan's interviews he said he was conflicted about property rights and gave an example of how society would be much worse off if Newton had somehow protected his discovery of the calculus. If this had happened in today's society he might have been able to keep his discovery as a trade secret and offered his services to perform all sorts of calculations and predictions, for a fee — or he could publish it and make money by exploiting his eminence as a great scientist as a lecturer, researcher and academician.

Rand, also, could have protected her discoveries as a trade secret but it is difficult to see how she could have profited from that. Newton could have demonstrated the effectiveness of the calculus but Rand wouldn't be able to demonstrate the benefit of Objectivism without revealing its essence.

I don't have any immediate conclusions — just ruminating.

Sam


Post 9

Tuesday, October 2, 2007 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Robert-

I think the YouTube guy's offering is sufficiently brief.  I completely understand the concern over "loss," and all that, but this seems like it could only be a gain for the material's owner.  I can't see any potential for loss, only potential for gains.  

I suppose one could be stupid enough to squash free marketing in a misguided effort to protect his/her property.  I'm trying to think of an example where this method was successful...

Is it really in the property owner's best interest to curb this kind of enthusiasm?  I think not.  Do they have a right to curb it?  I guess so.  Yuck.


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 10

Friday, October 5, 2007 - 4:07amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
So as the author of the video I'm asking you guys- should I yank it? I can still work on it for my own benefit, education and enjoyment and share it with friends. Should I pull the videos off YouTube? I didn't intend to violate Piekoff's rights or the Baldwins or whoever owns the copyright. I just think that the ideas are extremely relevant and they're not getting an effective hearing.

As a side note, I would hope that the estate would pursue those people on sites like Demonoid.com who have uploaded the entire novel in MP3 form before they would come after me. I just want to study the ideas in some context- put flesh on their bones for myself, in a way.

Good premises all!

Post 11

Friday, October 5, 2007 - 12:50pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Hi Richard,

I'm no expert on copyright and fair use, but I would like to say welcome to RoR!

Ethan


Post 12

Friday, October 5, 2007 - 2:25pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Richard,

Congratulations on the terrific work you've done so far.  I look forward to seeing the future installments.  You've embarked on an awesome endeavor, but you are clearly up to the task. 

In the event that you end up having to remove the videos from YouTube, I hope you will include me in your circle of close friends with whom you'll continue to share your work!

Eric


Post 13

Friday, October 5, 2007 - 2:48pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
"So as the author of the video I'm asking you guys- should I yank it? I can still work on it for my own benefit, education and enjoyment and share it with friends. Should I pull the videos off YouTube?"

I recommend you seek the advice of a qualified professional, such as an attorney who specializes in copyright. With some digging or recommendations, you can probably get an opinion on the subject for free.

I'm not an attorney, but as an author I'm sensitive to the issue and, even having only watched a few minutes of the video, my take is that you are violating copyright. But I don't claim to be an expert on the subject.

You could contact ARI for an opinion, but you may not get an unbiased answer, though they might supply you with a section of the relevant law that allows you to make an objective judgment on your own.

Post 14

Friday, October 5, 2007 - 4:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
So as the author of the video I'm asking you guys- should I yank it?

NO!!!  And don't waste your money on a legal eagle, either.   Just enjoy it while you can.  If the poobah gets pissed, his legal team will send you an email.  If you get the dreaded email, then you can yank it, or seek legal advise. 

Been there, done that.  Don't yank until you're asked (told) to.

(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 10/05, 4:18pm)


Post 15

Friday, October 5, 2007 - 5:01pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I agree with Teresa.... these are well done imaginative pieces, and would like seeing how far you can go with this.... each, on their own, pass the limited fair use - it is in totality that raises the questions....

Post 16

Tuesday, November 6, 2007 - 3:07pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Sam Erica wrote: "...  Rand, also, could have as a trade secret but it is difficult to see how she could have profited from that. Newton could have demonstrated the effectiveness of the calculus but Rand wouldn't be able to demonstrate the benefit of Objectivism without revealing its essence. "
Galambos felt that intellectual property owners should have complete control over their ideas and how they are used. ...
Some of Galambos' students were required to acknowledge a "proprietary notice" which asked those students to give credit (both intellectually and financially) for the information gleaned from his courses; later he required that all participants in his lectures sign a non-disclosure agreement.
--- Wikipedia





 


Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.