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Post 80

Monday, October 31, 2005 - 7:42pmSanction this postReply
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Well, I too have a muse - a delightful, beautiful  California woman with whom have had many many brainstorming sessions over the past more than a year, delighting me with enchanted possibilities of new renderings.... nothing mystical here, just a lot of creativity...

Post 81

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 11:51pmSanction this postReply
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Joe:
         Damn! You caught me out in my attempt to plagiarize Socrates' stealthy style of supplicatory subject. Re the rest of what you say: I agree (though, I'd think twice about generalizing to the rubric 'mystical'; Feynman often referred to his 'playing' with his ideas until, in effect, a 'Eureka' phenom popped up.)

Robert:
         Be careful what you're 'rendering' (or...'creating'); remember: Pygmalion is known for where his problems came from.

LLAP
J:D


Post 82

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 6:41amSanction this postReply
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Oh my - if only I could have THAT 'problem'...

Post 83

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 1:27pmSanction this postReply
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John, fair enough about Fenyman, but you can't deny Einstein's attitudes (God does not play dice with the universe, etc.).

Post 84

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 3:33pmSanction this postReply
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     Al's 'attitudes'? Nope; I don't deny them. But, I'm hard put to see them as bona-fide religious 'beliefs.' As I understand, he rarely referred (but for that famous quote, which Hawking saw fit to extemporize on) to a 'God', but occasionally did to 'the Old Man.' Al struck me as being more of a Deist rather than a theist.

LLAP
J:D


Post 85

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 4:06pmSanction this postReply
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To the extent that Einstein had any sort of vaguely "religious" belief, it was of the Deist type -- "God" as an impersonal principle of order, not as a personal creator. His famous, oft-quoted remark that "God does not play dice with the universe" (originally in French, "Le bon Dieu...," I forget how the rest of it goes in French) was a metaphorical comment made in a particular context. He was expressing his dissatisfaction -- a dissatisfaction he retained to the end of his life -- with the idea of quantum indeterminacy.

Ellen Stuttle

Post 86

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 4:13pmSanction this postReply
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Hmmm...interesting. So what does this mean for Nathaniel Branden's anecdote about his mother's dissatisfaction with his atheism, where she appealed to the fact that "Einstein believed in God?"

Did he not believe in God?

Post 87

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 4:25pmSanction this postReply
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(Answering Joe's question):

No, he didn't, not in the sense NB's mother meant. She was mistaken in using Einstein as an authority figure in the reported incident.

Ellen

Post 88

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 4:27pmSanction this postReply
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Hmm, I'll have to learn more about that. Thanks, Lysandra.

Post 89

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 5:51pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

For the record, Einstein formally was a Rosicrucian.

Michael


Edited for spelling - In Portuguese it is "Rosa Cruz." Getting my languages mixed up.

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 11/03, 12:15pm)


Post 90

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 12:04amSanction this postReply
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MSK wrote:

> Joe,
> For the record, Einstein formally was a Rosacrucian.
> Michael


I'd be interested to know your source for that.

Ellen S.

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Post 91

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 12:24amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

The Rosicrucians make posthumous claims on many "illuminated" people. Do you have any evidence that Einstein was a Rosicrucian before he "ascended?"


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Post 92

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 12:37amSanction this postReply
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Adam wrote:

> Michael,
> The Rosicrucians make posthumous claims on
> many "illuminated" people. Do you have any evidence
> that Einstein was a Rosicrucian before he
> "ascended?"


If he does, it's going to be VERY interesting news to a number of people I know, including two former heads of the Einstein Project and the present curator thereof, and others, including my husband who's done extensive research about and given a number of speeches about Einstein's life and hasn't ever come across the information that Einstein was a Rosicrucian. A general question about the Rosicrucians: Do they accept persons of Jewish heritage?

Ellen S.

Post 93

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 4:18amSanction this postReply
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Lysandra and Adam,

In Brazil, one of my exes was a Grand Master. She had me join back then. Obviously, I am not a practicing member.

Despite the oath of secrecy (which I see no good reason to violate), I can say that Einstein is featured prominently in their literature as having been a member while he was alive, since some of that literature is public.

Also - Rosicrucians accept all human beings of all denominations.

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 11/03, 4:20am)

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 11/03, 12:16pm)


Post 94

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 8:17amSanction this postReply
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MSK:

> Despite the oath of secrecy (which I see no good
> reason to violate), I can say that Einstein is featured
> prominently in their literature as having been a
> member while he was alive, since some of that
> literature is public.

Do you have any of that literature? If yes, would you be willing to Xerox and send it to me? I'm serious that Einstein scholars would be interested in how far people will go with the mythologizing.

Ellen S.


Post 95

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 12:21pmSanction this postReply
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Ellen (Lysandra),

It is all in Brazil and in Portuguese. Part of the promise you make when you join is to not copy it and disclose it. (There are some places on the Internet I believe where this was done - I haven't looked in a long time).

However, the Portuguese is nothing more than a translation of the English. If you have the patience, do a google search entering the following words:

Einstein AMORC

or

Einstein Rosicrucian

You will get oodles of stuff. You will have to sift through a lot of disparate entries, but you will find enough to get some research going.

Hope that's helpful.

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 11/03, 8:16pm)


Post 96

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 4:04pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

You suggested that I do a Google search. I did, on "Einstein Rosicrucian," and, as you anticipated, found a great many entries (12,800). I looked through the first about 40 of these. They include a great many references to Rudolph Steiner's claim in *Rosicrucian Esotericism* that Einstein was "a pioneer or prophet of the second" stage of "the finished work of creation," and to the theory of relativity "as Rudolf Steiner's final 'Riddle of Philosophy.'"

But amongst the entries I looked at, I saw only one -- on the abovetopsecret.com forum -- claiming (in effect) that Einstein thought of *himself* as a Rosicrucian. That entry is posted on a discussion blog by someone with the screen name "watcheroftheskies" who writes: "i will tell yu all something that very few people know [no period] einstein was a rosicrucian [no period] i have met with those who also say he discovered the theory of relativity while meditating."

Very reliable report. ;-)

The long and short of it is that relativity is claimed as having significance to the Rosicrucian mysteries. The claim isn't an unusual one in mystical circles. Relativity seems "strange" enough to many people, a lot of the mystical traditions coopt it (without understanding it) as in keeping with their teachings. But what I thought you were indicating was that Einstein actually at some point in his life *joined* the Rosicrucians. Were that true, and were there firm evidence of its truth, this would be extraordinary news indeed to Einstein scholars and to those still alive who were friends of Einstein (in some cases the same persons are in both categories).

Btw, regarding my own use of a screen name: A few months ago I was curious to read a couple of the extended bios of SOLO members. Discovering that one has to be a member in order to read those bios, I signed on; but I used a screen name because I wasn't eager to have various SOLO members who know that I lived in the New York City environs from late '68 through the end of 1979 nudging me to post about my memories of the New York Objectivist circles of those years. My real name is Ellen Stuttle, and at this point I wish I'd signed on in the first place with my real name. Not that there's any likelihood of my posting here often, as I haven't the time. But every now and then (the current incident, for instance) I might be sufficiently tempted to interject on a factual issue.

I wonder if the list "powers that be" could just change the screen name to my real name.

Ellen






Post 97

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 5:37pmSanction this postReply
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Ellen,

Thank you so much for such a nice post (and being the one and only Ellen Stuttle)!

At the few meetings I went to in Brazil, and in the "monographs" that a member receives for weekly study (which is what you do formally as a Rosicrucian, the meetings are not required), Einstein was portrayed as having been an active member of AMORC (Ancient Mystical Order Rosæ Crucis ) - this is the official name for the Rosicrucian organization.

From the online copy of "The Mastery of Life" (the introductory booklet of AMORC) I just saw that Einstien was not listed:
Throughout history a number of prominent persons in the fields of science and the arts have been associated with the Rosicrucian movement, such as Leonardo da Vinci (1452 to 1519), Cornelius Heinrich Agrippa (1486 to 1535), Paracelsus (1493 to 1541), Francoiz Rabelais (1494 to 1553), Theresa of Avila (1515 to 1582), John of the Cross (1542 to 1591), Francis Bacon (1561 to 1626), Jacob Boehme (1575 to 1624), Rene Descartes (1596 to 1650), Blaise Pascal (1623 to 1662), Baruch Spinoza (1632 to 1677), Isaac Newton (1642 to 1727), Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz (1646 to 1716), Benjamin Franklin (1706 to 1790), Thomas Jefferson (1743 to 1826), Michael Faraday (1791 to 1867), Marie Corelli (1855 to 1924), Claude Debussy (1862 to 1918), Erik Satie (1866 to 1925) and Edith Piaf (1915 to 1963).
Now my own curiosity has been whetted. Give me a bit of time and I will do some research for you on this. I am sure that I saw this - with a drawing of his head, blurb and everything. It might have been on one of the first monographs or in one of the supplementary booklets that accompany it.
 
Michael


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Post 98

Thursday, November 3, 2005 - 7:23pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

Thanks for your reply. I'll be interested to hear any further information you might find when you have the time. Meanwhile, when my husband gets back (Sunday) from a conference he's attending, I'll tell him about the suggestion that Einstein might have joined the Rosicrucians. (I very much doubt that Einstein did, for several reasons: its never being mentioned by any of the biographers; its not being in keeping with Einstein's proclivities -- the secret society aspect, plus the general imprecision of the beliefs, plus his lack of interest in any sort of organized religious and/or mystical activity -- and its not being something for which he'd have had the time even if he did have any interest.)

I'd expect my husband will contact Tilman Saur (sp?), the archivist, or curator, or librarian, or whatever Tilman's exact title is, at the Einstein Project archives, to see if he might know anything about this. The subject would be a fun one for Larry (my husband) to add to the "religion" section of his "Einstein: The Myth and the Magic" talk. Larry's given three presentations of that over the last several months, varying how much technical detail he includes depending on the audience, and he's scheduled to give a presentation at Smith on November 14.

Ellen


Post 99

Friday, November 4, 2005 - 9:59pmSanction this postReply
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BLACK-HOLY PYRAMID-TEMPLES, MIKE!
     Einstein was controlled by, or even a member of (sh-h-h-h!) [I-l-l-u-m-i-n-a-t-i] ? --- We all know that this group, (really the inside secret ring of the GirlScout-Brownies), rules over and controls all other 'secret' groups, and over those supposedly 'public' groups whose inner levels have 'secret' handshakes and code-greetings.
 
     Guess I'll have to go back and review my Rule By Secrecy book, and start re-checking all those conspiracy sites again. Ah-h-h-h...so much secret knowledge, so little time.

     O-t-o-h...maybe it's all just, well, like, relative, you know?

LLAP
J:D

P.S: So, Mike, can you tell us anything about Egypt's Great Pyramids? Are they REALLY based on Orion's belt?


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