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Post 20

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 5:38pmSanction this postReply
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I'll grant you I'm touchy, I'll even grant you I can be pedantic (not on purpose, it just comes out that way.) But sense of humor? I ain't falling for that. This ain't a comedy club. And you're no Seinfeld.

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Post 21

Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 6:02pmSanction this postReply
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And Robert, don't say I didn't want that discussion. I started a thread called "What is Music" in response, threw in some building blocks to boot. Did YOU contribute to discussion? NO. Did you dispute the building blocks? NO. Did you offer ANYTHING? NO. You said NOTHING. You had the opportunity to speak up and out, and didn't.

Feel free to write whatever you want, write an article, start a thread on what YOU think music is. Put your ideas out there to be debated. Put up or shut up.
(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 11/29, 6:08pm)


Post 22

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 5:22amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

I was very interested in the topic when it started, but was told to butt out from moment one, now you are complaining you got no input. 

In a nutshell it is simple.   I don't approve of a failure to judge, i.e. the multi-cultural leaning of today's post modern society where all ideas are equal and any one answer is as good as the next.  I believe all Os are.  We reject modern art for very cogent reasons and I believe that same course is correct for music. 

I am not 'ecumenical' in my approach to life and don't think I should be when it comes to music. 

(Edited by Robert Davison on 11/30, 5:25am)


Post 23

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 5:35amSanction this postReply
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Robert: "In a nutshell it is simple. I don't approve of a failure to judge, i.e. the multi-cultural leaning of today's post modern society where all ideas are equal and any one answer is as good as the next. I believe all Os are. We reject modern art for very cogent reasons and I believe that same course is correct for music. "

You know, Robert, I DO have a sense of humor. You're not Seinfeld, you're George Costanza. You are slime.

Now you say I have a failure to judge. You are simply wrong. I've judged you as an asshole, and you've proved that you haven't read my articles at all.

That's it. Sorry Linz, I am not putting up with shit. I step down.




Post 24

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 6:13amSanction this postReply
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My, aren't we in a tizzy?  Why should you care so much whether or not I agree with you?   Do you always expect monolithic agreement?

Post 25

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 8:00amSanction this postReply
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Joe, don't you dare step down. Dismiss Robert and move on. No need to take a third glance at what he said. 


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Post 26

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 8:25amSanction this postReply
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Joe, don't let Robert Davison get into your head.  This is what he does.  He doesn't have anything to add to intellectual conversations.  Instead of putting his opinion forward he engages in shitty little games.  He is rubish and if I were to think it over he would likely get my nomination for "Solo's worst member".   I wouldn't step down from anything over Solo's worst member.  Just ignore him.

These secondary SOLO clubs are a good idea but only work well if there is someone guiding the discussions.  You are doing a good job of this.  So please reconsider.

 - Jason


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Post 27

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 9:39amSanction this postReply
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Forget all that.
Robert, all you've proved is that you can burrow under my skin like the worm you are. That's MY issue, since I'm responsible for my emotions.Doesn't erase the fact that you are a prick.
Your first words in response to the announcement of SOLO MUSIC was "What is your favorite color? Why is your favorite superior to other hues?" After several more snarky posts, I suggested that this may not be the group for you. You've continued to express your ambivalence towards the forum's existance.

THIS IS NOT THE GROUP FOR YOU.

I am staying. You will be ignored.


(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 11/30, 10:14am)

(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 11/30, 12:16pm)


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Post 28

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:27pmSanction this postReply
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On the new SOLO site we're gonna have a play pen for adults who behave like children. By my current reckoning, Mr. Davison would already be in it. Joe—you're not stepping down. Uncle Linz needs you! :-) And since when was a flash of temper a mortal sin that you need to fall on your sword for at SOLO?

To coin a phrase, Joe, shine on!

Linz
(Edited by Lindsay Perigo
on 11/30, 12:30pm)


Post 29

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:31pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,
I have a hypothesis -- a poor one, I immediately admit -- on which I'd like your feedback.

I've noticed in myself and others a tendency to enjoy music that reflects an era with which I (at least temporarily) identify.

As a young teen I enjoyed some rock. Later I re-discovered (first discovered Bach in 6th grade) Baroque and later moved on to Rachmaninoff, Saint-Saens, Ravel, Debussey and others, with whom I stayed for a long time. (While still enjoying, but listening less to Baroque).

Then I didn't listen to music very much for several years.

Later, I became a huge fan of Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra and others, less so.

In each case, to an extent, I identified emotionally with the era from which the music came. For a year or so as a young teen I was very much 'anti-establishment'. Later, I loved the rationality of the Baroque period, the romanticism of late 19th early 20th century Rach, etc and then later came to enjoy many of the movies, etc of the 40s, 50s, early 60s.

Probably this is entirely unoriginal, but I've not seen it much discussed. (Granted, I read almost nothing to do with music criticism, history, etc.) by the way, music was almost entirely absent from my home life growing up. Occasionally my mother would play a Mantovani or Andy Williams record, but I survived with a love for music firmly intact. In fact, in my late teens/early twenties I learned a couple of instruments, sang extensively -- even performed at the Dorothy Chandler Pavillion with a large choir, and later did some off-Broadway musicals in New York.

Your thoughts?

Jeff


Post 30

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 12:56pmSanction this postReply
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Linz, I told you I'd carry over, so I will I'll carry over. :) However, it was more than a flash; I was ready to put my fist through a wall. Not good for my walls.

Jeff, interesting...I'm sure we could all provide similar anecdotes. (I have the same associations, certain musical preferences seem to mark a perioud of my life: rap in early teens, alternative rock in my cover bands days, Sarah Mclaughlin in my relationship and breakup...a song from any of those periods will instantly bring back a flood of experiences.) Part of it, I suspect, is more psychological than musical. I haven't seen it discussed very much myself musically, but oddly enough, in an essay by Anton Levay. His theory was that people identify with a certain time period to keep "young." (He pointed to the classic example of the elderly wearing the clothing and listening to the music of their prime.) It can be a method of "freezing time" in a way. The world may change, but at least SOMETHING of our youth can be preserved. Again, it seems to come down to the question of "devotion or deviance?" Sometimes, we want to hold on, other times, a song may be too stongly associated with a period and prohibits us from continuing, even if we like that song.

Rand and musicologist Anthony Storr both comment on this aspect of music. A piece of music can commonly be thought of as happy or sad, but the emotional assessment of the piece may vary. " I like this because it's happy and lighthearted" vs. " This is too lighthearted and superficial." I suspect your hypothesis is related to this idea somehow.





(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 11/30, 1:02pm)


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Post 31

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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Joe, definitely looking forward to SOLOmusic 2.0.

Shine on.

---Landon


Post 32

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 6:35pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff, you wrote about your musical experience: "In each case, to an extent, I identified emotionally with the era from which the music came. For a year or so as a young teen I was very much 'anti-establishment'. Later, I loved the rationality of the Baroque period, the romanticism of late 19th early 20th century Rach, etc and then later came to enjoy many of the movies, etc of the 40s, 50s, early 60s."

I just came across a passage in Anthony Storr's MUSIC AND THE MIND that you might appreciate; does this sound like it matches your experience?

"Reviewing new compositions is a difficult undertaking. An analytical, critical stance toward a piece of music partly precludes emotional involvement with it...Both attitudes are required in musical appreciation, but they cannot usually function simultaneously. Critics of new music are probably attempting an impossible task. If they stand back and write about its form and structural coherence, they may miss its expressive significance; if they allow themselves to experience the music's emotional impact, detached, intellectual assessment becomes more difficult."




Post 33

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 6:38pmSanction this postReply
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Question raised - why is new music any different from old music not heard before?

Post 34

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 8:17pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

I'm not sure. I'll have to think about it. One difficulty I have recognizing myself in the passage (if that's your question) is this.
Boasting about something I'm most proud of, which I thought would be much more common among Objectivists when I first met them, is that my emotions and intellect have always been extremely well integrated. (Occasional missteps aside.) I think this, with no comparison other than this, is one of the keys to Ayn Rand by the way. She always trusted her emotions because she knew she'd 'earned' them so to speak.

Anyway, I'll have to think about it. Thanks for the passage.


Post 35

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 6:08amSanction this postReply
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Linz,

You are correct, of course, in encouraging Joe to continue.  But since when are you against raising the question "what is music and what is not".  The alternative is akin to multi-culturalism where any sequence of sounds is equal to any other and all are considered music.


Post 36

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 6:42amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

Your first words in response to the announcement of SOLO MUSIC was "What is your favorite color? Why is your favorite superior to other hues?"
You are correct, and it was prescient. 


Post 37

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 10:25amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

I just read the article that this thread is based on. I know very little technically about what makes music work (as opposed to my preferences). Your piece was helpful and thought-provoking in that regard.

Thanks for writing it, Joe!

Post 38

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 12:54pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Phil!

Post 39

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 1:06pmSanction this postReply
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Reeling it back, it seems like one question is whether something is music if it does not possess melody. The answer is probably no, but with the caveat that the melody might be subtle. For instance, if you hear a drum solo, the drums produce tones. If a melodic approach is taken to the drum solo, it will come off.

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