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Post 40

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 1:32pmSanction this postReply
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Good points, Rich. There's also the question of what constitutes a melody as opposed to a theme or a tune. I have a suspicion that appeals to the "old grey whistle test" are appeals to a hummable theme. I do agree that the test is fine for defining a good SONG, but not quite up to the task of defing music.

Part of the problem with the hummability criteria is you have to ask, "hummable by whom?" Some passages are so slow, with notes sustained by instruments that are capable of being played longer than the voice can hold, and some passages can be so fast that even the most versatile singer can't keep up. There's also the problem of ability: If a yound child is still struggling to keep up with "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star," he's not going to be able to pull of humming Rachmaninoff (unless he's a prodigy.) Some adults aren't up to that standard. Does that mean Rachmaninoff is not music? No, it means that the 2nd concerto is not a memorable pop song, it is something else. And what of Bach's complex counterpoint? WHICh melody is to be hummed?

The fallacy with the whistle test criteria, if I may theorize on it, (this will be worded poorly, since it's the first time I'm grappling with this thought out loud) is that it is mistaking hummability with memory. Before something is hummable, it has to make sense to the individual listener. Memory has to develop, tonal relationships have to be grasped.



Post 41

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 1:40pmSanction this postReply
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Sometimes I think that in composition we can define it as a melody if it was written with the intention of being one, if you follow. It may not be "catchy", but still, it is one. It was written as a self-contained theme, or statement. It is a self-contained musical idea.



Post 42

Thursday, December 1, 2005 - 3:38pmSanction this postReply
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Joe,

Good points all, Joe (Post 40).  This is one of the conversations I have been wanting to have.  The other is how should music be judged.




Post 43

Sunday, December 4, 2005 - 7:14pmSanction this postReply
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There is a acapella group called Rockapella that has a member dedicated to making a variety of percusive effects using only his thoat, lips, breath and embouchure. While this may not be what people think of by 'humming a tune' I certainly find his 'drum solos' during the group's performance to be music.



Post 44

Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 9:32pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff, I came across a passage in Jourdain's book that may relate to your theory:

"Some social psychologists have gone so far as to suggest that we 'imprint' to a preferred musical style during early adolescence, much the way young animals imprint upon their mothers, forming an attraction that will never leave them. If this is so, then our brains may literally develop toward a particular musical style during the final years of normal musical development (from about age ten to twelve.) This is not saying much more than that neurons form connections as we learn, and those connections tend to dominate all further perceptions. Once one way of listening is established, it is applied to all kinds of music, which are accepted and rejected by how well they fit. Neurons are quite capable of branching toward further connections that could accommodate a wider range of musical understanding."

This is a Gestalt theory of music, and I've got some more info on that once I get caught up. But I think it also fits with the theory of knowledge being hierarchal, and music preference being hierarchal also seems to make sense. Hope this helps...



Post 45

Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 8:10amSanction this postReply
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Joe,

Thank you for that. I'm always suspicious of theories that talk about 'imprinting' and reduce learning to neuronal connections, but I'd be interested to hear more in this case. (I'm no neurologist, but I'm inclined to think that once the brain reaches the level of complexity capable of producing self-awareness, that capacity becomes a regulator and not merely the passive effect of underlying neuro-chemical/neuro-physical causes, as such theories tend to imply. But that's for another thread.) 

Glad you're all rested up. :)

And thanks for the jovial holiday best wishes.
Jeff




Post 46

Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 4:50pmSanction this postReply
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Totally understand your suspicion, Jeff. I'm currently working on a detailed presentation of the Gestalt theory of music; in the meantime, here's a snippet that addresses your concern from THE PSYCHOLOGY OF MUSIC by John Davies:

“…it is important to realize that, as originally postulated, the laws of Gestalt perception were envisaged as natural laws…it is clear, however, that the Gestalt assumption of innate and spontaneous organizational tendencies need to be modified to take into account the learning and experience of the observer in forming his perceptual groupings.”


(Edited by Joe Maurone
on 12/29, 4:51pm)




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Post 47

Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 6:54pmSanction this postReply
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Speaking of hierarchy and the perception of music, please check out my 1970 (yes, 35 years ago) paper on Arthur Koestler and Music Theory, which is linked from this webpage:

http://members.aol.com/REBissell/indexmmm.html

Best wishes for 2006!
REB




Post 48

Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 8:10pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Roger. When I get a chance to update the links, I'll add those.



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