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Post 60

Monday, December 24, 2007 - 6:36amSanction this postReply
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It'll still never end - a determinist will always determine.....;-)

Post 61

Monday, December 24, 2007 - 11:51amSanction this postReply
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Ahhh, good one, Rev'!

But according to Bill's arguments, it may be possible for one side of this argument to make the other side feel like rescinding!

And according to Bill's arguments, the following is a summation of what has been offered by him as some kind of profound philosophical progress in understanding human choice-making [paraphrased]:

===============
In whatever context, whatever you did, you felt (most) like doing.
===============


I am, personally, unimpressed with this tacitly-championed synopsis (as being a source of any kind of profundity or philosophical progress).

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 12/24, 11:53am)


Post 62

Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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     Can it be said then, that by this view of 'choice'-making, all comes down to whatever the strongest desire/feeling/want-of-that-moment is all that's ever really meant by 'value' or 'value-judgement' here?

     If so, I'll be the 1st to agree that volition (or free-will) is irrelevent in these 'choice's of actions; just as much as it's irrelevent in choosing which flavor ice cream I now...want.

     This is not the territory Rand was ever talking about when she spoke of 'picking one's motivations.' She was talking about HARD 'choices.'

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 12/25, 7:56am)


Post 63

Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 8:02amSanction this postReply
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ADDENDUM:

     ...You know, where the subject of one's WILL (as in 'free' or not) becomes relevent and meaningful. It's not in the situations discussed so far.

LLAP
J:D


Post 64

Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 6:34pmSanction this postReply
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John,

I think that you've hit on the reason that Bill didn't have an integrate-able answer to my post 7 in this thread.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 12/25, 6:36pm)


Post 65

Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 7:58pmSanction this postReply
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     To elucidate: a conflict of mere safely trivial-desires (or automatic-reaction crisis moments) really involves no 'choice'-making; it involves only a set of alternatives where one has already made the 'choice' to leave the action be motivated by whichever desire/reaction is strongest.

LLAP
J:D

PS: I suggest that those who find Rand's statement "Value is that for which one acts to gain and(/or) keep" as the 'definition' to go by, to stop myopically trying to include random desires in its meaning. Re-read Galt's paragraph on that (rather than ignore/evade all after the sentence)...not just the sentence itself, especially IF one prefers to call oneself an 'O-ist.'


Post 66

Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 7:59pmSanction this postReply
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     Consider my ice-cream situation. For most people no controversy applies...nor a need of 'focusing.'. However add in that that pre-'choice' had the competing alternative of  one's going to a weight-loss program which they perceived as an important 'need' but one also had a desire to not go to it, here there be relevence of will/volition discussions in the O'ist framework. Situations where there's no need or time to think are red-herrings in the whole subject, especially when the now near-ambiguous term 'choice' is...preferred.

LLAP
J:D

PS: ED: Your link to your 'post 7'...doesn't.


Post 67

Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 1:27pmSanction this postReply
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John, here's the url:

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/ArticleDiscussions/1955_0.shtml#7

[and while you're there, check out my post #9 criticism, too -- you seem to be touching on that one now, as well]

Ed


Post 68

Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 11:16amSanction this postReply
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Joe wrote,
Bill and Jon, I don't want to imply that Bill is being dishonest.  I just think that he's consistently missing the point of my arguments, possibly because he thinks I'm arguing for some variant of indeterminism.

Joe, you're not paying attention to what I'm saying.  In Post 53, I wrote, "[I]t's important to understand my argument. I'm not saying that there is no difference between the theory of free will and the theory of indeterminism. Of course, there's a difference. I'm not equating the two theoretically. Rather I'm saying that, in the final analysis, free will implies and entails indeterminism." I understand that you're not arguing for some variant of indeterminism. You're arguing for free will.  What I'm saying is that the theory of free will implies and entails indeterminism.  Do you understand the difference? You continue:
Let me offer one last example.  Take Bill's friend who wants to watch the Superbowl.  But imagine he stayed up all night the night before, and is exhausted.  While in theory he can choose between countless options, in this example we'll say he narrows it down to watching the Superbowl and taking a nap.
If he chooses the Superbowl, then after the fact you can say he made the choice to achieve the value of entertainment.  If he chooses the nap, then after the fact you can say he made the choice to achieve the value of rest.  In both cases, you can "explain" his action by reference to the value that he sought after.

But the issue, in terms of offering this as a necessitated or deterministic choice, is to look before the choice was made.  At that point, there are at least two values in play, not one.  You can't focus on the value he picked and say that it made the decision for him. 
First of all, I don't say that THE VALUE made the decision "for him." HE made the decision for the sake of gaining or keeping the value. Secondly, there are not two values in play here.  There are two alternatives in play, but there is only one value, namely the GOAL or PURPOSE for which the choice is made.
You can say that was the motive for wanting to pursue that particular action, but it wasn't the criteria for picking between the two values.  In other words, it only explains the action taken and why he wanted to pursue that action in the first place, but it doesn't explain the choice.  It doesn't explain why the other option wasn't chosen.



The other option wasn't chosen, because, relative to the first option, he didn't value it.
Nor is it enough to simply say "he valued X more than Y".  That again only describes the outcome of the decision making process.  It simply says that after he made the choice, he went with X instead of Y.  Until the choice was made, this can be answered in the same way.  If "value" is that which you end up seeking, then until the choice is made, neither is really a value.
Not true. The value is the goal or purpose for which the choice is made, and that goal or purpose has to exist before the choice is made, since it is the reason for the choice.

Instead, you'd have to phrase it different.  You could say for instance that he physically wanted sleep.  You could say that he had a long term goal of watching the game.  You could say that emotionally, he wants to watch the game live, but intellectually, he knows it'll be the same even if he naps first and watches it later on Tivo.  But until the choice is made, you can't say that he prefers one over the other. 
As an external observer, you may not be able to say that he prefers one over the other until the choice is made, because you have no way of knowing, prior to the choice, which one he'll choose. But his preference for one over the other has to exist prior to his choosing it; otherwise, he'd have no reason to choose it.

You can say based on different standards he may prefer one to the other.  On the standard of good health, he may favor the sleep.  But he still must decide which of these standards he prefers.

You're saying that his preference is based on his decision, whereas I'm saying that his decision is based on his preference.  He has to have a reason for the decision -- a reason for preferring one alternative over the other. He doesn't choose one over the other arbitrarily.  Nor does he decide on one standard over the other arbitrarily, which is what you appear to be saying. If he decides to sleep based on the standard of good health, then it is because values good health and wants to maintain it. He doesn't adopt such a standard in the absence of any interest in or preference for it.
At the beginning of the process of evaluation, he may prefer one to the other.  As he works through the issues, he may decide that part of that was based on a faulty evaluation.  He may, for instance, realize that the pleasure he'd get watching the game would be limited because he's so tired, whereas that didn't occur to him.  He may decide to weigh these options based on his best understanding of life as the standard of value, or he may instead take a shortcut and go with whichever one feels good.  This process could take seconds, or minutes.  The outcome will be based on how hard he focuses, how details an analysis he takes, and whether anything happens to distract him at the time.

Right.  And how hard he focuses will, in turn, depend on how much he values a particular intensity of focus over the alternatives.
Or imagine he flips a coin.  If the coin says to watch the Superbowl, he didn't decide to watch the game because he valued the entertainment higher.  He made the choice because it was very close to the value of sleep, and in fact the coin made the decision for him.  After the fact, you can say that on net, he preferred the Superbowl (including the random result of the coin toss). 
Right, he decided to watch the game, because he wasn't sure which alternative he preferred and because he had to make a decision for which he used the coin toss as a proxy. In other words, he valued going by whichever way the coin landed, and since it landed in favor of the game, he valued watching the game.
But it's an after the fact description.  You certainly couldn't know that before the decision was made.  And certainly the primary reason for wanting to watch the Superbowl, the entertainment value, was not the primary reason for making the choice the way he did.



No, in this case, the primary reason for watching the game was not that the entertainment value superseded the value of sleep, since in either case, it was a toss up.  The primary reason was the need to make a decision and the desire to abide by the result of the coin toss.
So there's a difference between why did he want to pursue an action, and why did he choose that action.  Saying that he valued it higher is a description of the results, not an indicator of what necessitated the choice.  And of course, Bill has claimed that the value actually did necessitate the choice.

I don't think there's a difference between why he wanted to pursue the action and why he chose the action.  He wanted to pursue the action, because he wanted to do what the coin toss indicated, and he chose the action (of watching the game), because that's what the coin toss indicated. What necessitated the choice in this case is the value he placed on the outcome of the coin toss.
I think this is the best I can do in describing it all.  Given that previous attempts have failed, I'm not optimistic.  But if anyone cares to understand why I think Bill hasn't actually been answering my questions or dealing with the issues I brought up, this post explains it.  There has to be a real effort at distinguishing before the choice is made and after.  If you're going to describe how a choice is made, it's not proper to use the result of that choice, let alone say that it necessitated the choice.  Before the choice is made, the decision-maker doesn't have that information available.
Yes, he does. Before the choice is made, the decision maker knows which alternative he prefers; otherwise, he wouldn't choose it. For instance, in the previous example, the decision maker had the information available from the result of the coin toss, and made the choice to watch the game based on that information. What's not to understand?

- Bill

(Edited by William Dwyer on 12/27, 11:17am)


Post 69

Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 11:58amSanction this postReply
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Bill,

... in the previous example, the decision maker had the information available from the result of the coin toss, and made the choice to watch the game based on that information.
But, Bill, how do you square that with your doctrine of pre-determination? Though the outcome of the coin toss is mechanically determined -- by the power of the thumb-flick, the angle of the coin at thumb-strike, the wind-resistance, the arc of the coin-flight, the height that it had to descend before coming to rest, etc. -- there's no mental determination (i.e., the coin-tosser isn't trying to get "heads" -- i.e., by perfectly adjusting and integrating the power, angle, wind, arc, height, etc.).

This means that, operationally, the outcome of the coin toss is indeterminate. Can you integrate that with your version of determinism?

Ed


Post 70

Thursday, December 27, 2007 - 4:08pmSanction this postReply
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In Post 57, Ed Thompson writes,
Bill says that it's an act that defines a value (the act of gaining or keeping). 
To be precise, a value is an object of an action -- that which one acts to gain or keep. One may not succeed in gaining or keeping it, but it is the goal or the purpose of one's action.
On this definition, whenever there aren't acts -- there aren't values -- even if your immediate value is to sit still (as when you're hiding from a close-by predator). Because values -- according to Bill -- are always and only things that you act for; inaction indicates no values.[!]
In the broadest sense of the term, sitting still is an "action." The term "acts" in this definition is being used in sense of any choice to behave in a certain way, including the choice to refrain from physical activity if one is tired and wants to rest.  In that case, resting is a value; it is the object of one's "action." 

In Post 68, I wrote, "[I]n the previous example, the decision maker had the information available from the result of the coin toss, and made the choice to watch the game based on that information."  In Post 69, Ed replied,
But, Bill, how do you square that with your doctrine of pre-determination? Though the outcome of the coin toss is mechanically determined -- by the power of the thumb-flick, the angle of the coin at thumb-strike, the wind-resistance, the arc of the coin-flight, the height that it had to descend before coming to rest, etc. -- there's no mental determination (i.e., the coin-tosser isn't trying to get "heads" -- i.e., by perfectly adjusting and integrating the power, angle, wind, arc, height, etc.).

This means that, operationally, the outcome of the coin toss is indeterminate. Can you integrate that with your version of determinism?
Of course, the coin tosser is not trying to get heads. He's trying to get a result by which to make a decision. But this is not inconsistent with determinism, since his decision to flip the coin is determined by his desire to enact a decision procedure, and the outcome of the coin toss is determined by the laws of physics.

 - Bill


Post 71

Friday, December 28, 2007 - 3:43pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

But there's still the choosing agent's intention of acting indeterminately (by what is, operationally, a "chance" outcome -- as mechanically-determined as a coin toss is by laws of physics). There's no pre-determination in that (nothing which can be traced back to the antecedent experiences of the choosing agent).

Ed


Post 72

Friday, December 28, 2007 - 9:32pmSanction this postReply
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Ed wrote:
But there's still the choosing agent's intention of acting indeterminately (by what is, operationally, a "chance" outcome -- as mechanically-determined as a coin toss is by laws of physics). There's no pre-determination in that (nothing which can be traced back to the antecedent experiences of the choosing agent).

Ed, it seems straightforwardly obvious to me that the decision procedure (coin toss) can easily be traced to antecedent experiences of the choosing agent. E.g., I may have decided, based on past experience or observation of the experience of others, that using a coin toss in matters of rather low consequence (e.g., attending movie A vs. movie B -- NOT choosing whether or not to marry Susie!) is a pleasurable, low stress way of making a decision when I really can't easily decide between alternatives. I carry this past experience with me, along with the resolve to use that method in the future when similar situations arise. What part of that don't you understand as involving antecedent experiences of the choosing agent?

Now, even if I've never done this before, and I've just thought up the method (flipping a coin, rolling the dice). That, too, would involve my past experience. I have been in situations in which I experienced difficulty in making a decision, so I now invent the method of using a coin toss to get me past the difficulty. What part of ~that~ &c &c &c??

And even if I've never had difficulty in the past in making a decision, I'm having it ~now~. Why isn't ~that~ part of my antecedent experience -- i.e., my experience antecedent to making the decision?

More fundamentally, why are you guys ~still~ trying so hard not to understand what Bill Dwyer is saying?

I go away for 12 months, and come back to this?? Sheesh.

REB


Post 73

Saturday, December 29, 2007 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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Roger, you write:

More fundamentally, why are you guys ~still~ trying so hard not to understand what Bill Dwyer is saying?
But I can tell you -- in my own words -- what Bill is saying. And, when somebody can tell you -- in their own words -- what you are saying; well, then, that somebody is "understanding" what you are saying (because repeating another's point in your own words proves that you understand them). Here's what Bill is saying ...

===========
In whatever context, whatever you did, you felt most like doing.
===========

And Roger, as a supposed theory on human will -- that stance, fully understood, is merely vacuously true (i.e., it's a type of "determinism" that cannot be used in order to determine the choices of others -- or even one's own choices).

Ed



Post 74

Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 12:08amSanction this postReply
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     If I understand correctly, at this point, everyone arguing this subject, pro or con, of free-will/volition (regardless hair-splitting therein) agrees that the essence (or, their meaning) of making 'choices'/decisions boils down to nothing but doing whatever one most strongly 'feels'-like/desires doing; correct?
     This over-riding desire is thereby considered one's deciding 'value(judgement)', correct?
     Ergo, focusing, or applying rational attention, if and when noticed as being necessary (!) (-ie, not ice cream or coin flipping scenarios) to a set of alternatives is done only as a result of 'feeling' like it, correct?

LLAP
J:D


Post 75

Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 7:58amSanction this postReply
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John,

I, for one, agree that one does as one feels most like doing. It's the think-feel-act camp of psychology -- where thinking (freely) comes before feeling; which comes before acting.

For instance, if -- through your own free thought and reasoning -- you've reached a point where you feel like criticizing GW for increasing statism in the U.S. more than any other president in the last quarter-Century; and you feel this more strongly than you feel like "getting along" with the many GW-advocates that contribute here, then you'll do it (like S. Drunkenmiller recently did).

;-)


Ed


(Edited by Ed Thompson on 12/30, 10:43am)


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Post 76

Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 3:22pmSanction this postReply
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There is no deductive argument that would establish the existence of human volition and that determinism is false, any more than there is to prove that a particular apple left on the tree in late Fall moves nearer the Earth.

Any premise used to prove it would necessarily have to be more fundamental than the assertion "I observe via introspection and experience that I possess volition." But there is no more fundamental premise on the subject than that. All knowledge begins with the observation of what exists.

It's an observation made from first hand experience. Just as I can't prove by deductive argument that a given unsupported apple near the surface of the Earth moves closer to it, I can't prove that volition exists by deductive argument.

All deductive arguments, then, to show that free will exist can do no more than merely show that determinism is false — which is entertaining, but unnecessary.

Such arguments are not needed because explaining what volition is, and 'pointing' to it, is sufficient to establish both (that volition exists and that, therefore, determinism is false).

Consider a person (me) with his leg attached to an electrical stimulus — a set of wires and a battery of sufficient voltage and current, etc. Someone closes the switch and the leg twitches.

Now think of the same twitch, but caused by a person (me again) initiating the action by thinking "I'm going to twitch my leg muscle now," then doing it.

The first, clearly, is not an instance of free will. The person didn't initiate the action, but merely responded in a way determined by the nature of electricity, his muscle proteins, etc.

The second, I submit, is an instance of volition or free will. How do I know this? Introspectively. I chose to initiate the action and I control, to a degree, the actions of my leg muscles within the constraints of what leg muscles can do when willed to act.

That I had a motive for this action, even a very compelling one (to provide an illustrative example) is irrelevant. I am conscious of my leg, have knowledge from experience of what it can do under conscious control, and set myself the task of twitching my leg. Then I carried out that task by an act of will.

Among all the antecedent factors leading to my leg twitch this is the one that should be highlighted: I willed it. I could have refrained from doing so.

To deny this observed fact is just that, to deny an observed fact. To assert that some underlying cause over which I have no control is present is to argue that some cause of which I may or may not be aware is the controlling factor.

But I observe that I control the action.

When one develops a sophisticated argument to show that a simple observation doesn't exist the appropriate course of action is to correct or discard the argument, not the observation. Observation is the final court of appeal in the trial of knowledge.

Is this begging the question? No, no more than observing an apple fall is begging the question whether apples can fall to the Earth. That the Earth is massive and apples are as well, and therefore gravity causes them to move along a line joining their centers in a manner described by Einstein's equation, is further elucidation of the observation, not a denial of it.

But there is a key difference between the apple-Earth example and my twitching my leg. Neither the apple nor Earth are conscious — and in particular, self-conscious — as humans are.

Neither the apple, nor Earth, initiate the action in the same manner that I do when twitching my leg. The apple doesn't give itself an order to release its stem from the tree. (At least, not in the same manner that I do.) I give myself an order to twitch my leg, and it does. We both may seek an end (what it might be in the case of the apple, if any, I don't know), but I willed the action, the apple does not.

(Aside: Naturally, if the nerves, etc that make possible such actions are defective, I won't be able to twitch my leg. Damage enough parts of the system and eventually volition would, indeed, be destroyed. But we're talking here about humans with intact brains, leg muscles, etc.)

The determinist responds that something — values, genetics, social training... it varies with the flavor of determinism — causes me to twitch my leg, something over which I ultimately have no control. Since all causes, the argument goes, are necessary, owing to the Law of Causality, my leg twitching is just as determined as the apple's fall. The 'value determinist' simply substitutes his favorite cause — the agent's values.

Whether or not all human action is purposeful, motivated by seeking a goal, clearly some is. It isn't necessary to establish the universal in order to make the value determinist's argument work. If some are, then at least in those instances human action is determined, in the sense that the agent could not do otherwise given all antecedent factors.

Perhaps, but here we arrive at a key question: what are those antecedent factors?

There is one — in my example — that the determinist overlooks: my will. I initiated the action. I said to myself: "twitch your leg" and I did. That I had a motive is, I repeat, irrelevant.

How do I know it is irrelevant?

Because, I observe through introspection and experience that I do in fact possess the power to regulate certain actions. In some cases, such as my example, those actions are gross bodily movement. In others, they're more subtle — such as tailoring a good argument.

But in both areas — thought and action — I am the controlling antecedent factor. That is, my will allows me — within the constraints of neurology, etc — to initiate these actions, or to forego doing so. Far from making thought or action random or causeless, it is exactly my will — a power which is a part of my identity, and therefore which sees expression in action — which is the cause of my leg twitch.

That there are intermediate factors — electrical signals sent along nerves to muscle fibers, etc — provides a more detailed explanation, but doesn't erase the relevant cause. Nor is it important that there are 'final' causes — the goal sought of providing an example. My will exists. That goals exist which motivate me to twitch my leg (or produce this post) only shows that my will doesn't operate in a causeless vacuum. But that assertion would be a straw man. I haven't asserted that it does.

Observe that this is not a deductive argument whose conclusion is: "I possess volition." or "determinism is false." It is a detailed discourse about an observation. By induction, I generalize discrete instances of actually exerting my will to the generalization "I possess free will," and further to that of "I presume that other humans, so similar to me in so many other respects, possess this power, too."

To argue against this position it's necessary to deny what I observe just as clearly and evidently as I observe the apple fall.

That would require either showing that all such alleged observations are illusory, i.e. that the senses, memory, etc are invalid, and therefore not observations at all, or that my will is illusory, i.e. that there are in fact factors that necessitate that I'll twitch my leg, such as my valuing doing so.

But then, in either case, determinism (in one form, "valuing doing so") puts human muscle control into the category of the leg that is wired up, it simply moves the wiring to the inside of the body (and makes the 'closer of the switch' the goal sought).

But this relies on an extended argument that, once again, is less fundamental than the simple observation: I willed it.

(Note: Of course, it requires considerable conceptualization to express "I willed it," just as it does to express "the apple fell." But to observe the fact requires none.)

There is one possible, reasonable, objection to the foregoing: it grants volition too widely. It opens the door for very simple organisms to possess it. Perhaps. That's a matter for biologists. Volition, like other biological powers, comes in degrees. In the case of humans, we distinguish this power by a special phrase "free will" because, with the possible exceptions of some primates, or perhaps other species, we exercise this power self-consciously. But the power itself exists along a continuum.

All determinist arguments ultimately put the control of leg twitching, thought generation, etc outside the conscious control of the person who twitches, thinks, etc. But it is an introspectively verifiable observed fact that I have this power, whatever motives or encouragements I might have to use it

The determinist fails to understand or fully appreciate the uniquely Aristotelian approach to knowledge: all knowledge starts with observation, and that what the observed things do is simply an expression in action of their identity.

It is the identity of humans to possess this power to regulate (some of) their thoughts and actions by self-conscious intention. That is known by observation. That observation is not in conflict with causality in any form. To the contrary, it is an instance of it.


(Edited by Jeff Perren on 12/30, 7:20pm)


Post 77

Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 3:55pmSanction this postReply
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Ed characterizes my position as follows:
Here's what Bill is saying ...

===========
In whatever context, whatever you did, you felt most like doing.
===========
We have to be careful here how we enterpret the phrase "felt most like doing."  I didn't "feel" like getting up to go to work in the morning, since I stayed up late the night before. But I got up anyway, because I wanted to keep my job. Does this refute value determinism?  No, because even though I didn't do what I "felt" like doing, I did what I wanted to do.

Now you can argue that there is a sense in which I got up because I "felt" like it.  But that is a very broad use of the term -- one that is equivalent to interest or desire.  In the narrower sense, I did something that I didn't "feel" like doing, but I did it for the sake of a higher value -- the preservation of my job.

- Bill


Post 78

Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 5:49pmSanction this postReply
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     I fail to see any distinction between "I feel like..." and "I want..." I can see no place for any conflict therein, other than one talking about 'mixed feelings' followed by arguing that the strongest one won, thereby doing one's choice (pre-Determining) for one.
     Now, talk about a desire/feeling-like/want vs a perceived need (the latter regardable, properly, as a 'value' aka important-to-one's-life goal...which, unlike a want, will take mental effort to persist for) and I'm clear about 'choice'-making; merely unclear as to what supposed program-element (according to some) decided the 'choice'.

LLAP
J:D 

(Edited by John Dailey on 12/30, 5:51pm)


Post 79

Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 7:40pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff,

I agree with you that all knowledge is ultimately arrived at by induction, and I appreciate your well written attempt at an inductive argument for free will.  However, I'm still not convinced that we possess free will in the sense that we could have done otherwise under the same conditions.  Let me explain why.  You write,
All deductive arguments . . . to show that free will exists can do no more than merely show that determinism is false — which is entertaining, but unnecessary.
There are no deductive arguments that I am aware of that show determinism to be false. If you're alluding to the argument that determinism is self-refuting, I've already disproved that argument. You continue:
Such arguments are not needed because explaining what volition is, and 'pointing' to it, is sufficient to establish both (that volition exists and that, therefore, determinism is false).
I don't think so, but let's see why.

Referring to a voluntarily initiated leg twitch, you write, "That I had a motive for this action, even a very compelling one (to provide an illustrative example) is irrelevant."

Irrelevant?  Not according to the determinist, for it is the motive -- i.e., the reason for or goal of one's action -- that provides the final cause necessitating one's choice.
I am conscious of my leg, have knowledge from experience of what it can do under conscious control, and set myself the task of twitching my leg. Then I carried out that task by an act of will.
Yes, but you had to have a reason for willing it.
Among all the antecedent factors leading to my leg twitch this is the one that should be highlighted: I willed it. I could have refrained from doing so.

Willed it?  Yes. Could have refrained from doing so?  In what sense?  Could have refrained if your motive or reason were different, yes, but not if it were the same.  But clearly, your motive has to be the same, because the claim is made that in one and the same situation either of two different choices are possible. Moreover, note that one cannot observe the ability to refrain from the action under the same conditions in which one willed it.  The best one can say is that one believes that one could have chosen otherwise, but the observation of a belief is not the observation of a fact.
To deny this observed fact is just that, to deny an observed fact. To assert that some underlying cause over which I have no control is present is to argue that some cause of which I may or may not be aware is the controlling factor.
Well, if you value respecting people's rights, because you believe in the Objectivist ethics, do you have "control" over that value, such that you can alter it at will and thereby adopt the opposite value?  Clearly not, in which case, you also have no "control" over your willingness to respect people's rights.  Given the value that you place on respecting them, you cannot violate them. 
But I observe that I control the action.
Not in the sense you're implying.  You do "control" it in the sense that you are willing it -- in the sense that it is the product of your conscious choice.  But you do not "control" it in the sense that you could have chosen otherwise.

When one develops a sophisticated argument to show that a simple observation doesn't exist the appropriate course of action is to correct or discard the argument, not the observation. Observation is the final court of appeal in the trial of knowledge.

I agree.  So where is the "observation" that we possess free will?  The answer is, there isn't one, because, while it is possible to observe the ability to choose differently under different conditions, it is impossible to observe the ability to choose differently under the same conditions.

You ask, if our actions are determined by antecedent factors, "what are those antecedent factors?  There is one," you say, "that the determinist overlooks: my will." You continue:
. . . Far from making thought or action random or causeless, it is exactly my will — a power which is a part of my identity, and therefore which sees expression in action — which is the cause of my leg twitch.

Yes, but what is the cause of your will or choice?  It is the motive, reason or purpose for making it. To say that one could have chosen either of two different actions under the same conditions implies that one is indifferent to which action one chooses, which in turn implies that there is no clear-cut purpose for one's choice -- no reason for choosing one alternative over the other.  But if there is no reason for choosing one alternative over the other, then one's choice of action is indeed random or causeless.
Observe that this is not a deductive argument whose conclusion is: "I possess volition." or "determinism is false." It is a detailed discourse about an observation. By induction, I generalize discrete instances of actually exerting my will to the generalization "I possess free will,"

Your inductive generalization is based on the premise that you have actually observed instances of free will -- i.e., of the ability to choose differently under the same conditions.  But you have not in fact made any such observations. All you've observed is the simple act of making a choice.  You have not observed that that choice could have been otherwise. 

In the final analysis, then, I don't see that you've made a sound, inductive argument for the existence of free will -- for the ability to choose either of two different alternatives under the same conditions.

- Bill

(Edited by William Dwyer on 12/30, 7:53pm)


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