RoR: Forum

Great article! Entertaining, well written and on point. We accept so much of this nonsense without batting an eye, I suspect, because we've become desensitized to it. American culture is in a downward spiral, an exemplar of bad taste and poorer judgment.

I roll my eyes at the abysmal state of commercial advertising. I know, I know, I'm supposed to like it, because it's a necessary part of capitalism, but I don't. In a way, I wish it didn't exist, even though I know that it's there to inform and alert people to products that they might enjoy and benefit from.

There's nothing wrong with advertising per se, but what the companies choose to produce is a sad reflection of people's values, like the increasing popularity of car stereos that are cranked up so loud, you can feel the vibrations a block away. Of course, the police do nothing about it, because they don't have the manpower and it's the least of their concerns, with prisoner's now being released early. Spending your tax money on social services now has a higher priority than spending it on law enforcement.

In a way I'm glad I'm almost 70, as there's a good chance I won't be around when things get really bad.

And they will.

- Bill

Post 1

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 4:55am

[Incredibly obnoxious comments deleted.]

(Edited by Joseph Rowlands on 4/11, 7:10pm)

Post 2

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 8:01am

Troll alert.

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 10:20am

Robert, I read Mr. Campbell's other posts and he is not a troll. Take a look.

But this post where he drops immediately to ugly name-calling and fails to use reasoned argument or logic is unacceptable. A Nazi is evil because of the force that is used - nowhere in this article is it even imaginable to imply that kind of motive to Alexandra York - and that makes this post truly ugly. I reread the article and also found nothing racist. Again, an ugly and unfounded attack.

I find it bizarre the he received those sanctions. Who here is okay with irrational, unsupported character assassination? Anybody want to stick their hand up and say, "I sanctioned him"? And say why.

Is this becoming like the sports fans at European soccer matches that paint themselves in funny ways, get drunk and get into brawls? I've always felt that the emotional side of some sports fans was a lot like the emotional side to some nationalists who automatically go to emotion-based attacks - as if that is proper behavior for a 'patriot'/sport-fan.

I didn't watch the Superbowl - just not a sports fan, and never have been. But I completely agree with the articles description of our cultural decay over recent decades. Rand commented on it as well, in her time. We are using ever more sophisticated technology to push out ever more putrid content.

I sanctioned Bill's post.

Post 4

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 11:24am

I sanctioned Howard Campbell's post. I must say, I didn't watch the Super Bowl, so I may actually have found myself in agreement with parts of Ms. York's post. But she really does come off as a snob, and this is not the first article by her that has given me that impression. She seems to be the sort of person who would put "music" in quotes anytime it is preceded by the word "rock". I for one ENJOY American popular culture and music.

Post 5

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 11:52am

There is a lot of rock music that I like. And a lot of 'pop' culture as well. But I thought that Mr. Campbell's attacks were outrageous. I don't think we understand the relationship between music and beliefs or character to make the kind of judgement that Rand or others make. Other forms of pop culture can be evaluated - like novels, movies, or TV commercials. And we can agree or disagree with a criticism, but Mr. Campbell's references to fascism and racism were beyond the bounds of civility or rationality.

Laurie, I certainly don't agree with your sanction, but I applaud your willingness to stand up and defend it - which you didn't have to do.

Post 6

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 12:11pm

I sanctioned Howard and Laure. I didn't watch the Superbowl either but I found the article repulsive and was not offended by anything Howard said.

Post 7

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 12:51pm

As an unregenerate sports fan, I did watch the superbowl, and thought it was one of the best I've seen in recent years. If you think that's inconsistent with my previous post, think again.

Oh, and let me add, long live snobbery! In today's culture, it's very often a sign of good judgment.

- Bill
(Edited by William Dwyer on 2/25, 12:58pm)

Post 8

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 1:10pm

Mike, I have no objection to anything Laurie wrote. And I don't care that you found the article repulsive.

But as to Mr. Campbell, maybe I missed the sentences in that article that are racist or support Nazism. Could you show me where they are?

And if you can't then why would you sanction someone making that kind of ugly smear? If someone made a false accusation against you, wouldn't you want them to provide some form of evidence that you could refute?

Where the fuck has fairness gone on this planet!?!?!

Post 9

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 3:17pm

I always take these attacks on popular American culture with a grain of salt.

The Ancient Greek play "The Clouds" by Aristophanes is considered to be a classic. The play has endured time and is taught in the classics department of almost every university and college in this country.

Yet the very first page of this play has a fart joke.

No doubt some Athenians were crying that their culture was on a downward spiral.

Post 10

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 3:58pm

I am absolutely shocked that this subjective, unsubstantiated, ignorant, intentionally malicious comment somehow deserved four atlas icons:

And as to York's horrid article; what a ridiculous, snobby piece of crap with barely concealed racist undertones.

Premises, people!?
Where are they in this?

Post 11

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 5:00pm

Premises, people!?
Where are they in this?

I think they checked them . . . at the door. ;-)

Post 12

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 5:24pm

Ancient Roman rulers and various, unscrupulous power-brokers kept the public distracted with animalistic gladiators and circuses (so that they could get away with more evil than they otherwise would have been able to), contemporary U.S. politicians and various, unscrupulous power-brokers did the same with this last SuperBowl.

It's that simple. If you liked the SuperBowl in its entirety (commercials included), then you are one of the ones whose eyes aren't yet opened. Then you are part of "the problem."

Ed
[and sanctions to the "good guys" in this thread]

Post 13

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 5:28pm

See here.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 2/25, 8:48pm)

Post 14

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 6:39pm

It is true that classical music and European culture in general are often associated with Fascism. It always had the sense of superiority and elitism which Nazis loved.

But anything taken into extreme leads to some form of totalitarianism: it could be populism, elitism, whatever -ism you prefer.

Some dose of elitism and refine culture could be good for modern world.

The information the world gets about America comes mostly from TV and Hollywood. And they can reasonably ask: how comes that this trashy nation is a super-power. When you live in America, you know how it works, but try to imagine those people outside. Hollywood does not make us look good.

Don't get me wrong: there is talented rock music, good movies ... But there is also vulgar part of American TV which runs unopposed, and gets worse every year. You might say it's capitalism, they are free to do whatever they want. But in capitalism the client is always right. Why don't we demand something better? ...

And American commercials ... If you grew up with them you might not even notice just how bad they are. I still remember one of the first commercials I saw. It was about an ice cream: a man tries an ice cream and goes mad asking for more like a dog. After twenty years in America commercials don't shock me anymore (although I make conscious effort not to buy anything I see on TV if I can buy something else), but this one I remember. I never bought a single bar of this brand. I just can not. I can not even touch it.
(Edited by Maria Feht on 2/25, 6:50pm)

Post 15

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 6:41pm

So Ed, do you just have a problem with sporting events in general (comparing them to Gladiatorial games!) or just the way the Superbowl was presented? Is it possible for civilized societies to throw sporting events or is that intrinsically evil? And what are your own personal standards for how a Superbowl should be presented?

You know the Ancient Greeks had sporting events every four years to commemorate various gods and goddesses, were those also distractions given by politicians to hide their own actions too? Why pick and choose which historical events you want to compare the Superbowl to? Last I checked, the Superbowl is a sporting event, which is a Capitalist venture. The Gladitorial games were thrown by emperors (i.e. the government) where people fought to the death.

Post 16

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 7:16pm

The idea of a degenerating culture is something that we've heard from every previous generation. That we hear the same broken record today is not surprising I suppose, but what is surprising is that people buy into this notion things are just so horribly bad, that the good ol' days were some how so much better. But by almost any standard, life is so much better today than it ever has been, we live longer, we're wealthier, we have an explosion of technological progress...life is good.

Civilizations do not collapse because of dick and fart jokes.

If the rest of world wonders why we are a superpower after looking at what Hollywood produces, then why do they fall over themselves to see the latest Hollywood movie or buy the latest American pop band album if they feel it's such a degenerate culture? Are they just hypocritical?

Post 17

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 7:59pm

>>If the rest of world wonders why we are a superpower after looking at what Hollywood produces, then why do they fall over themselves to see the latest Hollywood movie or buy the latest American pop band album if they feel it's such a degenerate culture? Are they just hypocritical?<<<<

Or maybe a nation is not a single person ... I tell you: the contrast between what you see in America and Hollywood movies is just startling for outsider.

>>>>>>The idea of a degenerating culture is something that we've heard from every previous generation.<<<<<

And it's natural and necessary process. Civilizations do collapse when nothing but "dick and fart jokes" are left.

I am not the one who predicts doom and gloom for America, it still has a lot of potential, probably for centuries to come.

But just saying that everything is fine is simply wrong. Certain things (political or cultural) if run unopposed could ruin this country. Fortunately there is opposition.

Post 18

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 8:25pm

Maria:

I tell you: the contrast between what you see in America and Hollywood movies is just startling for outsider.

It would be a shame if people judged a society by what they see in their popular art. I don't doubt they do this, but clearly they do like that art, or else so many outsiders wouldn't be consuming it and spending hundreds of billions of dollars on it. So obviously these outsiders see enough of a value in it to buy it.

Civilizations do collapse when nothing but "dick and fart jokes" are left.

Hmmm....I'm not aware of any civilizations that ended with just dick and fart jokes in their culture. Perhaps you can provide an example. But as I stated previously, I am aware of civilizations that had fart jokes in their art, and today the classics departments of our finest universities revere those cultures and those works of art.

Yes there are plenty of things politically that are wrong. But I took the thread to be a commentary on aesthetics within American pop culture, not political culture per se. But I wonder how one could use any objective standards to come to a judgment things are worse now than in the past. Clearly by any measurable standard, things are not worse. Teen pregnancy rates are lower than in the past, drug use among teens is down, crime is down, wealth is up, food is cheaper, all you have left is the subjective nature of aesthetics to complain about.

Post 19

Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 8:28pm