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Post 60

Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 5:26pmSanction this postReply
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Ah, touche...this just came out last June. Will have to check THAT out, thanks.
(Edited by Joe Maurone on 2/27, 5:27pm)


Post 61

Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 5:57pmSanction this postReply
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LOL, Fred.

That would be GM Performance Division. All muscle. Logo's on the bicep, but Galt only knows where they'll have it moved now. I don't even want to think about it.  

(Edited by Teresa Summerlee Isanhart on 2/27, 5:58pm)


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Post 62

Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 6:55pmSanction this postReply
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I don't mean to say you won't find any tasteless or mindless entertainment in today's culture. What I find suspicious is the claims that things have gotten worse. If they have, it's only a sign of increased wealth as less people had free time and a disposable income to even partake in movie or television watching 50 years ago. But the levels of quality entertainment I don't believe for one second has decreased since then.

Tattoos and piercings I don't have a problem with, and I think that some people may find it vulgar is purely a subjective judgment call. Some of them I do find horrible, but I've seen some tattoos that I find beautiful. I don't see tattoos as intrinsically anti-life. The people in this thread that find them intrinsically vulgar because they are "primitive" are falsely linking practices that primitive cultures partook in such as tattooing as evidence of their primitiveness. That is false, primitive cultures were not primitive because they had tattoos.



Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel



But more importantly, every free society will have instances of tasteless entertainment. If it didn't, I would suspect whether you would really be living in a free country. Even in past cultures we revere in our universities you will see plenty of examples of what some people may find "vulgar" art.



Aristophanes' "The Clouds"

[Scene: In the centre of the stage area is a house with a door to Socrates’ educational establishment, the Thinkery.* On one side of the stage is Strepsiades' house, in front of which are two beds. Outside the Thinkery there is a small clay statue of a round goblet, and outside Strepsiades’ house there is a small clay statue of Hermes. It is just before dawn. Strepsiades and Pheidippides are lying asleep in the two beds. Strepsiades tosses and turns restlessly. Pheidippides lets a very loud fart in his sleep. Strepsiades sits up wide awake]



If you don't want to see tasteless entertainment, Cuba or North Korea I bet doesn't have much of that at all. :)

Post 63

Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 9:04pmSanction this postReply
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John,
If you don't want to see tasteless entertainment, Cuba or North Korea I bet doesn't have much of that at all. :)
I beg to differ, but without proof. For instance, I'm of the suspicion that there is rampant cock-fighting in Cuba and N. Korea (but I am not in a position to be able to prove it).

Ed


Post 64

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 3:23amSanction this postReply
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Ever talk to a teen with a pierced tongue?  It sounds like they have a mouth full of marbles. And it's plain ugly to boot.  Same with nose, eyebrow, cheek, and other facial piercing.

Practices like that have nothing to do with beauty. They're all about copying one another for the sake of looking like everyone else who has metal crap hanging off their face. The more distorted the symmetry, the better.  

Cultural trends like that don't say anything good about free speech or expression because they're intellectually vacant.

I really appreciate your defense, though, John.   


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Post 65

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 6:05amSanction this postReply
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Ever had your ears pierced, Teresa?

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Post 66

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 6:09amSanction this postReply
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>>>If you don't want to see tasteless entertainment, Cuba or North Korea I bet doesn't have much of that at all. :)<<<

To be fair you have to compare government TV in both cases. And unless you consider Nancy Pelosi a tasteless entertainment I don't see the difference.

But I do remember how Soviet people entertained themselves: vodka and dirty jokes.

You see, John, in Soviet Union, people who had pride in hard work, moderate drinking, not using swear words in woman's presence were send to Gulag. The criminals who got into power after Russian revolution hated such people. They promoted so-called "socially close" - thieves and murderers, literally.

I am preparing my grandfather's Gulag memoirs for publishing, and the whole book is about it - who were the prisoners and who were the guards.

There are always been some admiration toward romanticized crime - part of "boys being boys". Robin Hood, Bonnie and Clyde, etc. But rap music is different - it goes down to details of crime, which no normal person should ever admire. The rap musicians are not just "bad boys", they are criminals (read the news). Having bunch of criminals in WH and promotion of rap music reminds me too well of "socially-close" philosophy. Culture has political consequences.

Cultural demise is a long process, it takes generations, but in the end the "everything goes" mindset is not going to work.

Either America will sort it out, or it will expire. Just like Roman Empire - welfare and cultural demise played their part in it's fall. No tattoos will save you ;-)



(Edited by Maria Feht on 3/01, 9:05am)


Post 67

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 10:40amSanction this postReply
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John,

I have no problem with tattoos as such. A tastefully done tattoo or two does not bother me. But when you get over 50% of your body or your entire arms covered in grotesque tattoos in what amounts to a kind of human graffiti, I have to wonder.

Also, even when the tattoo can be considered good art, why would someone want to use his or her body as a canvass for it? Suppose you get tired of the tattoos and want to eliminate them. If you tire of a painting, you can sell it or give it away. You're pretty much stuck with tattoos once you get them, unless you want to have them removed by a quite difficult and painful process.

As for piercings, ear piercings are one thing. Having your tongue pierced can pose a health hazard as well as interfere with speaking and eating. And having piercings in your eyebrows, your nose, your lips -- in short, pretty much everywhere on your face -- is overkill; it verges on the grotesque. When someone goes out of his way to make himself look ugly and bizarre, it tells me something about his values and his sense of life.

- Bill

Correction: In the second sentence, I had written "A tastelessly done tattoo does not bother me" -- a Freudian slip! I mean "tastefully done."

(Edited by William Dwyer on 3/01, 1:46pm)


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Post 68

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 12:20pmSanction this postReply
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Tattoos, and especially sophisticated tattoos covering big parts of the body are a part of prison culture where there is plenty of time and very little resources. High unemployment in Europe created the class of young people very similar in behavior patterns to prisoners. Growing popularity of tattoos while not a problem in itself, is a symptom of unhealthy trends.

Post 69

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 4:00pmSanction this postReply
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Well Maria apparently it's also part of the military culture, even with highly intelligent college educated American special forces. And also a part of pop culture since so many young people have them. Weight-lifting is also a big part of prison culture, and I weight-lift. I don't think I'm comparable to a prison inmate, nor do I think any of these non-prison folk should be fairly linked to prison inmates because they may have tattoos too.

Bill I agree and I wouldn't want a bunch of tattoos either, or even one. Like you said I'd worry that I would eventually not like the tattoo, and it's just too permanent.

Teresa I also agree that all those excessive body piercings are pretty ugly. But I have some waitresses at my business with small stud piercings in their nose and I don't think they look ugly.

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Post 70

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 5:24pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa I also agree that all those excessive body piercings are pretty ugly. But I have some waitresses at my business with small stud piercings in their nose and I don't think they look ugly.

Are they pretty? No. Are they flattering. Nope. Do they enhance symmetry of the face? Not in a million.

Would you hire a waitress with a gold ring hanging from her bottom lip? How about those barbell things stabbed through both eyebrows? Be honest ;)  If not, why not?

Look, it's not the piercing, it's the reason for piercing. I had my ear's pierced when I was 15 years old, long before I knew anything about fashion, or history, or symmetry, or art, or even biology. I just thought they looked beautiful with sparkly dangly things hanging from them. Turns out I wasn't alone. Women have been putting tiny holes in their lobes for millennia to enhance their faces with an accessory, because it works. Earrings are a gorgeous, timeless accessory.  They frame and highlight the face, while elongating the neck. 

Pierced ears can hold more weight than any clip-on earring can deal with, and thus support some amazing designs. Piercing was the only way a woman could get jewelry to stay on her ears comfortably for most of the history. The practice never died because nothing else offers the same lovely, feminine effect or function.

What does a nose ring do? 


 


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Post 71

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 5:39pmSanction this postReply
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I think the pleasing appearance an individual thinks a pair of earrings dangling from an earlobe appear to be is just as arbitrary as a nose stud.

But no, I wouldn't hire someone with all those excessive kinds of piercings because I don't think my clientele would like it. I would probably start to get complaints from my customers. But my decision here like everything else for my business is purely out of concern for my profits, not from any personal aesthetic preferences.

I turned down a suggestion by one of my supervisors to have our female bartenders wear sexier uniforms only because I didn't think it fit my business model. If however I was running a Casino bar, I would think sexy uniforms for female bartenders would be more appropriate for such a setting. So I think the context is really important to consider.


Post 72

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 6:12pmSanction this postReply
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I know it's popular, but beauty isn't subjective, or even arbitrary. A diamond stud in her nose would look just like a wart.


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Post 73

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 7:01pmSanction this postReply
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I'm sorry Teresa I just can't agree with you here. The beauty of earrings is just as arbitrary as a nose stud. Neither make any kind of objective statement about reality so I don't know how in that context the aesthetic of jewelry can be anything but subjective.

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Post 74

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 7:13pmSanction this postReply
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Just curious though, would a diamond stud on an earlobe also be ugly because it resembles a wart? And if the symmetry is the issue, why not two piercings on either side of the nose?

Post 75

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 7:37pmSanction this postReply
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In line with all this, tho far more private, what y'all think of this -

http://www.theluxuryspot.com/2010/02/23/i-got-vajazzled-and-had-a-camera-crew/

Post 76

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 7:39pmSanction this postReply
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Okay, now John. I can see this getting just a little out of hand. Don't you know that a diamond nose stud is a "gateway piercing"? Who knows where it will lead?! ;-) Seriously, I think you make good point here. A diamond nose stud, by itself no more detracts from one's appearance than a diamond earring. So I would take exception to Teresa's appraisal. (Sorry Teresa!)

But wouldn't you agree that some of the stuff we see is pretty ridiculous, unless you want to say that it doesn't matter esthetically what a person does to his or her body, that it's all radically subjective.

- Bill

Post 77

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 7:42pmSanction this postReply
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I think I'll be safe and just grow an asymmetrical beard, and put a sapphire in the opposing earlobe... ;-)
[the blue to match my eyes... ;-)]

Post 78

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 8:12pmSanction this postReply
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You might have to be from Philly to remember this: "Jerry's got a diamond in his beard/"Some people think that's really weird..."





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Post 79

Monday, March 1, 2010 - 9:08pmSanction this postReply
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For me it has always been psychology. Remember Rand's article on hippies? She wrote that they saw themselves being called upon to conform... and feared they wouldn't measure up. They rejected conformity - not as a disvalue, but a height they feared they wouldn't achieve. And the heart of the fear was that if they failed, they would be rejected. They achieved a sense of relief by setting a lower standard, one that they and their peers could agree to conform to.
----

I don't think anyone will get anywhere talking about a single diamond stud, or whether it is in the ear or the nose. And, it isn't about a little butterfly tattoo. It has to be a fashion statement of tattoos and piercings and clothing that set the person apart. However far the culture has moved (and it is a fashion trend) look at the person that is closer to the leading edge. They are saying, "I'm not one of you." With that perspective, you have some psychology - you can ask why.

If someone rubs your face in their difference from you, pay attention to what is the most consistent opposite of their style. It tells you what they run from - what they fear they should have but don't, or should be but aren't. Remember that anger, contempt and disdain are often protective conversions of fear... or shame.

Of course, these are just generalizations and don't carry across to every person... and young people are still forming, but when I see someone covered in tattoos and piercings and some extreme of dress, I'm fairly certain they are declaring, "I'm not a member of your tribe, so your judgment of me doesn't count. You are just damning me for my look, so I don't have to take your judgment seriously."

It's a self-esteem thing.

But when it seems to be sweeping through a culture, then it may be saying still more. I wouldn't be surprised if a portion of a population whose culture was in decline chose to adopt anti-culture stigmata. A fart joke can be funny... but if a person, or a culture emphasizes fart jokes, then like the artist painting a wart, a statement is being made. There is a style, an energy, an emotional recharging aspect to our culture. It is the set of gas stations where we refuel emotionally. Its art, its aspirations, its icons and models give this to us. If we are losing culture, there should be a slight background of uneasiness. Like a sense that money has been going out of your bank account faster than it is going in... until you face that by looking at a bank statement you'll have that background of uneasiness. If our art gives rationalizations for accepting anti-heros, says crude and trashy are just an honest stripping away of snobbery, and if the icons and models of the day are covered in tattoos, pierced and speak in 4-letter sprinkled sentences, I think they are declaring their sour grapes regarding our culture's demise - "Fuck, man, like who needs all that hero shit, anyway."



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