RoR: Forum

"Jennifer's starting to use the word "bloody"... good Lord in the heavens...."

Well, she is learning to speak Kiwi ;-)

Post 21

Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 6:21pm

An article on guns. I can�t wait, George. Make sure to point out that upon moving into the White House, Eleanor Roosevelt carried a revolver, and that she obtained a concealed carry permit from New York City when she left Washington.

Jon

Post 22

Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 7:53pm

Alec wrote:

'Jennifer, you�are now faced with a choice: you must either renounce your Italianism completely, or never�again�use the�term�"bloody" unless you're�referring to a virgin's marital mattress."

What bloody Italianism? I mean�Good Lord!�the girl didn't even know the meaning of "Regina," what?! Damned rum show, what?! A bloody Dago, you say, a greasy WOP, what??!! Piffle and poppycock, Sir! Bunkum and balderdash! Carry on, what?!

(Not Kiwi, but curmudgeonly stiff-upper-lipped Brit�my favourite!)

Post 23

Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 8:45pm

Sir Alec, for your information, I am half British. I am simply exercising my birth-given right to use the word "bloody." Lord knows my mother has been shouting it at us for years. ;)

(Edited because I can't even speak English anymore.)

(Edited by Jennifer Iannolo on 1/29, 8:50pm)

Post 24

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 3:39am

Jennifer, my ultimatum is now officially revoked, as that is the second time I've been called "Sir" today (in writing), and that pleases me very much.

My namesake, after all, was also a Sir. I am referring of course to Guinness. (Not the beer -- although that was a member of the menage a trois from which I was conceived.)

Alec

Post 25

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 6:24am

This site is offensive to say the least. Never have I come across such misogynistic anti-American crap. This was a joke, right?

It paints all American women as shallow, high maintenance Miss Piggy nags. I take exception to that. I can't believe that any of you would buy into that notion. Most American men are just as shallow or even more so than the women. I've found that because I have kids, I am not considered dating material. Damn!!! I guess I will just have to learn to accept the fact that I will die old and alone because by the time my kids are grown I'll be too old and ugly to even get laid.

(Edited by katdaddy on 1/30, 10:26am)

Post 26

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 8:39am

Having kids is no problem - it is that you are far away, in Chicago - and I am down in the nice warm clime of Tampa - else you'd have been invited to dinner (and whatever else).......... :)

Post 27

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 10:20am

Katdaddy,

As I said in my review, the author does a poor job of citing actual research to support his sweeping negative claims. Had he simply identified rationality as the key virtue and then shown that today's spoiled Americans, male and female, have drifted from it, he would have a more convincing argument.

While I agree with your assessment of misogyny, I missed the part about racism in his book. Perhaps you mean nationalism and not racism.

I can understand why a man looking for a life partner views children from a prior marriage as baggage. He wants a woman and not children. I have an acquaintance who works with foster children and sees an endless stream of incidents of women who literally throw their kids into the streets because their new boyfriends dislike children -- sad but true.

Luke Setzer

Post 28

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 7:28am

kat,

I didn't comment on American males, because there simply isn't enough cache space or whatever in the SOLO HQ server to handle what I could type about the American male, and his multi-infinite stupidities.

Post 29

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 12:30pm

Thanks for the Southern hospitality, Rob.

Danny, does this mean that we are somewhat in agreement that most women are divas and the men can't see past the end of their.....

Post 30

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 9:59pm

kat,

We are in agreement in the sense that I would go even farther than you...

I believe that most females are raised to be psychotically-delusional, tyrannical dominatrices, and most males are raised to be mindless, cut-throat sex worshippers... worse than pigs, and almost non-discernably superior in morality to what could easily overrun the average petri dish.

How's that for "fair to everybody"?

Post 31

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 10:46pm

I think, M. Silvera, that is sounds like elitist nihilism, with nary a good word to say about either sex.

What we as Objectivists are failing to properly berate here is the ugly collectivism here...ALL American women are evil bitches, etc., with some of us ascribing to the notion and even adding in ugly stereotypes ourselves (katdaddy about men). Come on, people, reject the ugly, stereotypical collectivism here and realize that there are fat Pole women, hot American ones, vice versa, ad infinitum!

Post 32

Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:04pm

The ugly collectivism, Mr. Druckenmiller, is what one can see in every corner bar in America on a Saturday night.

I think the creator of that site was entirely justified, and he has even specified that if there are outstanding American women who exist, they are the exception. He is correct.

I have been labeled a misogynist myself for holding such an opinion, but it is simply because I acknowledge the facts of reality. Of the women I have encountered in my lifetime (and at this point there have been thousands in various countries), whether in a social, business, or beach setting, it is the American ones who make me embarrassed to share the characteristic of a XX chromosome. (Spring Break, anyone?) The French ones may also be neurotic, but at least they have style and avoid Twinkies.

Whether they are feminists (or whatever term they like to call it), manipulators, gold-digging tramps or simply neurotic and delusional, they invariably confirm my expectations. In rare cases, they might even be mostly rational. But I can count the American women I actually like, connect with, and respect on one hand. That includes my mother.

(Edited for big clarification neglected in first post.)

(Edited by Jennifer Iannolo on 1/30, 11:15pm)

Post 33

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 5:10am

Ms. Iannolo

Although I am quite sure that you are a rational being, I suspect you might have a confirmation bias against women. Whenever I start to generalize or stereotype, I just ask "Is my mother like this...is my friend from work...were my exes like this?". Most of the time, the answer is no, people are far too complicated to be placed in gross little categories the author used. Come on, the picture is funny and the examples ring true on an anecdotal level, but if we were honest in our examinations, we would realize that people are individuals, deserving of independent scrutiny, not dumping into one category or another, at least until examined.

(Edited by Steven Druckenmiller on 1/31, 5:12am)

Post 34

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 5:30am

I wonder how non-American men view American women?

Post 35

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:36am

Mr. Druckenmiller,

My evidence is not all anecdotal. I said women I have encountered, not befriended. Have you ever witnessed the modern American college girl at Spring Break? It is a harbinger of things to come when she reaches adulthood. (No, I wasn't willfully attending said frat party on wheels -- I had the misfortune to have its monitoring fall under my job description.)

Sorry, but my "confirmation bias" has been proven so many times, in so many ways, that until someone can concretely prove otherwise my opinion will remain as-is.

It isn't a result of a lack of honesty or objectivity. It's an acknowledgment of reality.

John, Marcus might be able to provide some insight on that one.

Post 36

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 9:04am

"John, Marcus might be able to provide some insight on that one."

I doubt that, Jennifer. His insight probably pertains to the superlative rather than the average...

Post 37

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 9:13am

John asked:

I wonder how non-American men view American women?

This non-American "falls in love" with Spanish, French, Italian and Brazilian (oh, Brazilian... ) women every day... well, you know what I mean :)

But American- not once. I lived in New York for a couple of years and I actually had to stop and ask myself why- I never could answer it. It is not that American women are less beautiful, less intelligent, less joyful even... there was just something undefineable that turned me off- the accent? the neuroticism (suspect number 1)? In any case, I think that on average American women are different from women in the rest of the world in some way that I cannot define to my satisfaction...

Maybe I have just not met he right one- and from my experience with women, I suspect it is probably me with the false premises- I should be hunting down an American girl right now to see if my "luck" changes!

David

Post 38

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 9:39am

Jennifer:

Thanks for batting that one. I'm tired of these "glass half-full" people... when the glass is virtually empty.

People:

I can understand the psychology of looking on the bright side, provided that there IS a bright side. And even when there IS a bright side, have you not noticed that human beings tend to operate more out of REVERSE psychology, than the straightforward kind?

I mean, I have no doubt in my mind that people are just wired for spite. They resent being told most anything, and even long-term quadriplegics have been known to get up from their wheelchairs and spit in your face if you stand at the foot of their bed and laugh at their plight.

Okay, that's an exaggeration, but like it or not, that's how human beings work. They hate destiny and love a challenge... at least the respectable ones do. (who cares about the non-respectable ones?) If you want them to do anything, you have to goad them into it.

The point is, what's being described in that website is the truth... and pretending like it isn't really that way, in hopes of "inspiring people to change through positivity" is a great, brown. steaming loaf.

Things are bad. We know they're bad... and when you deliberately posture yourself in front of a flag flapping in the breeze during sunset and hold the lapel of your sport-coat and stick out your chin for dramatic effect and close your eyes tight and declare that "I don't see nuthin' but BYOO-tee-full-niss", you have just made yourself a sickening phoney that nobody respects for a total lack of validity and courage to face truth, and to whom nobody respectable will listen anymore.

In this case, since things DO suck, inspire respect by levelling with people and admitting that they do suck, and THEN point out what you think can be done about it.

Post 39

Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:02am