| | Joseph,
I find it commendable that you stick up for a friend or acquaintance. I admire that. I do it myself. But now on to the issues.
During this whole thread, there was an overbearing argument for argument's sake that just went in circles. It took the form of one poster (then others) asking a setup question and answering with, "So-and-so, where you are wrong is ..." and it simply did not matter what was said after that. To tell the truth, it did not really matter what the question was. It was a scratch-a-neurosis thing, not reasoned discourse. Read all the posts again if you do not believe me.
My particular beef with the person presently at issue is that this bug bit him so hard that he started spouting off a bunch of legal absurdities about damages and so forth, making it absolutely clear that he simply did not know what he was talking about. But the "So-and-so, where you are wrong is ..." crap continued.
A word about child care. Treating a child before maturity in the same context - rights-wise - as an adult is not particularly sound reasoning, even from an individual rights perspective. When a newborn comes into existence, there are only two options for the parents, care for it or abandon it. The baby really has no options. I personally will not commend the abandonment of a helpless infant to the elements as morally correct under any grounds. Ever. Assignment to another care provider, on the other hand, can be morally correct.
Is not the capacity to reproduce inherent in human beings? (Forget the gay issue for now. A human morality must hold true for all human individuals. One may not exercise a biological capacity, but that does not negate its existence.) Any morality that ignores an essential aspect of the human condition like reproduction is incomplete. So, yes, discussing the care of unwanted children is important and proper.
Maybe defining terms and establishing premises would be a good starting point before going on and on about children as if they were the same as adults in terms of rights/duties (like what went on in this thread). For instance, at what age or level of development does a child become an adult? What are children's rights - and then how quickly and to what extent should they be ascribed during growth?
I personally consider a child as a special form of property until maturity for legal considerations. And that is a whole other can of worms.
Back to the name calling. So we banter. So what? It's a hell of a lot of fun at times. Maybe Barbara came on strong (she must have had one mother of a reason to do that, too - that is not in character for her), but what are you supposed to do with someone who posts in answer that a person of Barbara's intellectual stature and conduct makes little or no attempt to understand what is being said?
There's no argument on earth that will cut through that kind of bullshit and make things serious once again.
So you banter.
Michael
btw - Marcus... LOL!!! English humor is in a category all to itself. When it catches you off guard like that, it is unsurpassable.
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