On Writing

I read Barbaras post #64 on writing, followed by Jasons post #67, from the Fountainhead thread, and, because I am too fat to fit under a desk with them both, I've started this thread for any who care to post.

I write simply because I feel the most alive when doing so.

John

Post 1

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 7:46am

Thanks for taking that initiative, John! I suppose we could make it a bigger desk, but I'd much rather be out in the open anyway, so we'll just duck the stuff that's chucked at us and proudly proclaim our love of writing.

Writing isn't really new to me per se. Looking back on my entire schooling, the signs were there that this could be a vocation. But before Objectivism, and more specifically before SOLO, I didn't have the same impetus to explore the writing process and actually do it. I just didn't feel I had anything to say. In actually attempting - and being successful at - writing a modest few articles for SOLO, I find I love it. There's something about the challenge of erecting this structure of words that will affect the brain and the soul.

One of my problems, as I said, was that I didn't have anything to say. This seems to be not such a problem for nonfiction for me now. I'm getting better. But I worry about attempting any fiction. It's really bothering me. I've started thinking in terms of plot, character-development, etc. (Rand's Art of Fiction has helped in this regard) but I worry I'm just not creative enough to come up with a great climax or compelling characters. I've heard stories of writers like Anne Rice who wrote and wrote and wrote before ever writing a novel, developing their style and skills. I never did that. I just don't have that many ideas floating around in my head that I want to turn into a story or even a novel.

I'd like to hear others' comments on the writing process, how they discovered their love of writing, whether they've attempted fiction or nonfiction and if a particular medium is preferred, and anything else they'd like to share.

Jason

Post 2

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:14am

Interesting...... in a way, I, too, didn't have much in the way of ideas for writing - at least didn't think so until I started on my own 'great american novel', what was to be the sequel to AS [blush, blush], which was an extention of the idea of a Galt's Gultch, and how such a place might possibly come to exist in the real world - and remain in the world once discovered.... well, the 'unfinished symphony' still remains as such, with about a tenth of it written, even with it rather well plotted out.... yet, it inspired a screenplay, and in the course of the years after, a finished manuscript on why I do my art the way i do it - and an ongoing sequel to that one... so it seems there was more writing inside me than had originally thought, tho am a visual arts person and never considered myself literary in any way....

And yes, have dragged the old 'unfinished ' out and may, despite these years, go on with more of it - perhaps even to see it completed, if nothing else than for the sake of closure on it.... one never knows of these things....

Post 3

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:23am

I write because as a scientist, you either "publish or perish!"

Ooops, I guess we are talking about a different kind of writing here.

Jason, I felt exactly the same when I was your age. But now, I have so much in my mind, I started to let it out a little since last year. Just trying to sort out the past. It's like a therapy to myself.

Post 4

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:24am

Thanks Jason. My love of writing grew from my love of reading. I was an early and voracious reader, and wrote my first story when I was seven. I have never published, and writing does not come easy for me. It is at times agonizing. At other times it is as natural as making love.

One of my favorite quotes on writing is the following:

"I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again."

Oscar Wilde

A recent conversation with someone about writing was THE impetus for me submitting my first article on SOLO. That person was George "The Pitbull" Cordero. George shared with me some of his own thoughts on the process and I wrote and submitted the article the following morning. The act of talking with him about my own prolonged haitus from writing
made me get off my ass. A simple thank you seems inadequate, but thanks George.

I will tell you this Jason, here on SOLO reside some of the finest writers I have ever read. Most probably are not formally published, and, I suspect most don't consider themselves to be anything more than "adequate". I may save a tribute to them for a future article :)

John

Post 5

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:28am

That is very true - this is one of, if not the best place in which to gather one's thoughts and put them down, whether as postings or as articles in their own right...cheers to SOLO......

Post 6

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 8:43am

Thank you for starting this thread, John.

Like you, my love of writing stemmed from a love of reading. When I was very young I'd read books at an astonishing clip, because I simply loved to get lost in the stories.

I was not fully cognizant that my writing was notable until my senior year in high school, when I had a teacher who seemed to inspire that writer lurking within me. He was so exacting, so relentless in his attention to detail, that I was forever changed.

My first writing professor in college tried to push me toward a creative writing major, but I was hell-bent on business. I didn't want to 'waste time' on such frivolities.

Then one day, as a young business owner, I wrote a little article called "Move Over, Martha," and that got the ball rolling. Now I publish 20 pages of content a month -- each of which is an exquisite kind of agony.

If I had to write full-time and do nothing else, I would probably lose my mind. It is a very solitary pursuit, and requires too much isolation. But those moments when I can just sit down and put fingers to keyboard are like a special kind of sanctuary.

Post 7

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 10:59am

Jason, I'm going to give you some advice that is totally heretical and would get me drummed out of any respectable Objectivist movement. Fortunately, Solo is not respectable.

Don't worry about exciting plots, great climaxes, compelling characters, et al. JUST WRITE! Write about anything you want to, in any form you want to. If you want to have two people talking -- or making love -- or attacking each other with bayonets -- do it -- and don't worry about what story it might or might not fit into. If you want to imagine a scene on a space colony a thousand years in the future, write it. If you'd like to describe a room you'd love to live in, describe it. If you're interested in trying to refute Kant's concept of the phenomenal world by showing what it would be like to live in it , do it. BUT WRITE. AND KEEP WRITING. If you possibly can, write every day, even if for only a hour.

Part of this -- the importance of writing every day -- is advice given by an interesting, and totally non-Objectivist writer named Carolyn See in her book about writing.

And let me tell you about Carolyn. She reviewed The Passion of Ayn Rand for the LA Times. Her review appeared on the front page of the Sunday Book Review Section, which was a coup for me. It was a mixed review, but predominantly favorable, and described the book as compulsively readable. So, of course, I was her slave for life. I happened to meet her later at a Book and Author luncheon in Los Angeles; we talked for a while, and exchanged books, which we both inscribed. The book of hers that she gave me was called "Golden Days."

"Golden Days" does not have a plot in a sense that Ayn Rand would recognize. It tells a story, however, a somewhat wandering and chaotic story. It does not have characters who are heroic in the usual sense, although some are heroic in rather different ways. When I was about half way through the book, it moved me so much that I started to cry. I mean sobs, not a trickle of tears. I kept reading, after putting a box of kleenex beside me, wiping away tears so I could see the pages. I wept without stopping until the end of the book, and then cried in earnest. They were not tears only of pain, they were mixed with a strange sort of exaltation. The book is a tragedy, with as agonizingly- life-affirming an ending as one can imagine. Someone wrote that Carolyn See's vision has "a crazy majesty," and indeed it does.

I was about to phone Carolyn to tell her my experience with her book, but I thought I'd better wait. Perhaps my reaction, which I did not fully understand, was only momentary, perhaps it had to do with some mood of mine and would not be permanent. I would wait two weeks, then read the book again. I waited two weeks. I read "Golden Days" again. I used up another box of kleenex. I phoned Carolyn.

My point in telling this long story is that there are all sorts and categories of novels. If you like the idea of the Randian view of fiction, great. It's a superb view, which has produced many great novels, including her own. So aim for that. But if you're not entirely comfortable with it, then keep writing until you find the form with which you are comfortable. But don't start out by putting yourself into a straitjacket of "shoulds" and "musts" and "this is right" and "this is wrong." JUST WRITE. THEN WRITE. THEN WRITE SOME MORE.

Barbara

By the way, you -- all of you -- may or may not like "Golden Days," if you should read it. Some of you may find that form of fiction not to your taste at all. Some of you may react as I did. BOTH ARE OKAY.

Post 8

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:09am

I think to be a good writer of fiction you have to knock out short stories and chapters for novels on a regular basis. Only with practice will you improve.

To do that you have to a) love writing continuously or b) have discipline.

To write anything I have to first kick myself up the ass. But once I get going - I simply cannot stop. If I have to stop, then it stalls, and the process has to start over again. It's sort of a "Catch-22" :-)

Post 9

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:13am

John, I loved the Oscar Wilde quote. Too true.

I, like you, loved reading from a very early age, and out of that grew my love of writing.

You wrote that writing does not come easy for you. It doesn't, as far as I know, come easy for anyone -- except for those wonderful moments, sometimes even hours or days, when it does, and then all the agonizing times of putting commas in and taking them out, then putting them in again and removing a semicolon, are worth it. There are many other wonderful moments, which most writers experience. There were several times, while I was working on Passion, that I'd write a paragraph, then read it over, and think, :"Hmmm... interesting... I didn't know I knew that!" Or the times I'd write something and want to jump up and down in delight, and I'd think, "Barbara, you are so smart I can't stand it!" If such things haven't happened to you yet, I don't doubt that they will. (Robert Bidinotto and Chris Sciabarra, if you're reading this, you know precisely what I'm talking about.)

So John, just keep at it, and try not to worry too much about the commas.

Barbara

Post 10

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:14am

Barbara, you really must tell me your secret of going without sleep. I have no doubt NEM Iannolo, being an entrepreneur, would also pay dearly - in whatever currency - for that secret.

Now on to my actual response:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not surprised at being affected by advice of yours but I am surprised at the extent to which I am. I don't mean just because "It's Barbara Branden talking to me". I mean because you've touched upon something within me that's been struggling to be heard by my conscious mind. I won't bore you with the minute details of it but suffice it to say that it's ok to simply write a scene, for the sheer pleasure of writing it, that it's ok not to set out to write a short story, or a novel, but simply a scene in one's mind. I had placed a certain completely unnecessary set of chains on my mind and I've only now just realized it. So thank you. Again.

Jason

Post 11

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:15am

I agree, Barbara. Glad you said that. Whenever I've tried writing Ayn Rand's kind of fiction--which is tempting because I really like it--it comes out pretty bad. The best stuff I've written has been completely different, focusing on completely different themes and feelings--like my favorite or most interesting memories from growing up, for example.

Post 12

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:19am

Marcus, your post reminded me of something Thomas Wolfe, a novelist of the 30's, once said. He was renowned for writing non-stop for days at a time, without sleeping or eating. He was asked how he could do it, and he answered, "It's because I'm the laziest man in the world. It' agony for me to get started writing, and I'm terrified that if I ever stop, I'll never start again."

Barbara

Post 13

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:33am

Jason, I can't tell you how delighted I am with your reaction. I had a feeling that you were dealing with "shoulds." and I badly wanted you to drop them.

Daniel, do you see the problem with setting out to write "Ayn Rand's kind of fiction?" Instead, try to write Daniel's kind of fiction .

Barbara

Where are the other writers? Don't leave me to pontificate like Moses bringing down the ten commandments. Come one, come all.

Post 14

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:39am

Robert M, your post is Exhibit A in defense of the idea that one must keep writing. You say that one unsuccessful attempt led to another successful -- meaning, completed -- attempt, then that led to another and still another. And the "old unfinished" sounds interesting.

Barbara

Post 15

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:08pm

Barbara,

I can tell you as a person who has rarely written down his thoughts that I very much regret it. I've always read a great deal from an early age. I've never been in the habit of writing, I feel like I've lost parts of my self because I don't have a clear recollection of insights I had from as long as forty years ago . I have a hard time making good arguments for what I believe because I've never disciplined myself to write.

There are two things about solo that I very much appreciate:

1. The quality of the people and the conversations here. I've never, ever, known even one other person who has read the kinds of books I like to read. Solo is like oxygen for me.

2. The opportunity to write down my thoughts. I've been writing stuff for myself.

Post 16

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:10pm

I heartily agree with Barabara's advice. No one, not even yourself, should tell you how you 'must' write -- nor on what, when, or why.

Just write. Every day. Only after a completed novel or screenplay do you have the 'right' to take a day off. (Oops ... a 'must'. Sorry about that. Never mind that. Bad joke.)

Or look at it another way. Do you have to whip yourself in order to allow yourself to experience one of the greatest pleasures possible? (Well, some might. No one here, I'm sure.)

Sometimes, only sometimes, listening to the most passionate music (which I love as much as others on the forum) gives me something close to the deep pleasure of writing -- but writing gives more: the satisfaction of having created it. (No doubt composers, painters, physicists, et al experience this too.)

And don't worry about getting published. That's an entirely different process. (Besides, if it really is good it won't be that hard to do. If it isn't you still get the important rewards.)

Post 17

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:12pm

Do you have to whip yourself in order to allow yourself to experience one of the greatest pleasures possible? (Well, some might. No one here, I'm sure.)

Why does Alec Mouhiban spring to mind?

Sorry Alexxx, couldn't resist. What is it Joe M. said once? It always comes back to you. A is A.

Jason

Post 18

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:24pm

By the way, from my research (which is extensive), with few exceptions it's mostly a myth that writing comes easy to 'writers'. Most have to have enormous discipline to get started, to stick with it to the completion of a story, a novel, a screenplay, etc. (See for example, www.holllylisle.com)

But this too has rewards, apart from the production of satisfying work. That sort of discipline is useful in many areas of life.

And, as Marcus and Barbara have both said, it takes practice -- lots of it -- to become a good writer. Many seem to believe that writers are just 'gifted', or have some special skill others lack. For some this is probably true. But like many who could draw with practice, but will never be Michaelangelo, you can realize substantially any potential you have by writing frequently. Don't worry too much about getting every word right on the first (or tenth) pass. Get it down and then go back and polish to your heart's content.

(This isn't original, but ....) I look at the process much like sculpture or (how some approach) painting. You've got a big block of marble. You have some idea of what you want it to look like at the end. You chip away large chunks. Then smaller chips. Then you polish to a high sheen. Sometimes you have to crack the thing in the middle, throw it away and start over. That's OK! (Like Edison's 'failures' you now know one way that does not work. You are that much closer to finding what does.)

Go. Pick up your tools.

Post 19

Friday, March 18, 2005 - 12:57pm