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Post 80

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 12:40amSanction this postReply
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Michael: “In Rand's fiction, it is always the one woman who had affairs with different heroes, not the contrary. My speculation is that this was her fantasy, but not one she would extend lightly to her husband, most especially with another man.”

It’s pretty clear from her novels and her private life that Rand fantasized about having sex with different heroes. But in real life her fantasy necessarily included her husband, in whatever role. And she must have had some view about the relationship between her husband and her lover.

One thing we do know is that people in her situation tend to fantasize that their spouse and lover will be best of friends. I suppose it’s a sort of psychological protection, as well as a wish fulfillment, the vision of a big happy family of loving friends.

In Atlas Shrugged, Francisco, Reardon and Galt are just the sort of loving friends a female could want. Dagny passes from one to the other, and they all remain best buddies, the rejected suitors not even taking up with other females, who might spoil the cosy atmosphere. Above all, the friends abide by the trader principle, that all relationships – personal and cultural – should be open and transparent, and not just to the participants, but also to all observers.

In trying to re-create Galt’s Gulch in her own life, Rand became enmeshed in a double deception – first in relation to her circle, and following the break in relation to the wider movement. In doing so she violated her trader principle, and that was the real betrayal. On the one hand, she insisted on open and honest dealings, on the other, she kept her own hand hidden.  

That’s the fundamental context of the Rand-Branden affair, which the focus on Branden’s lies and peccadilloes tends to obscure, since he was just one player in the circle of deception.

Brendan


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Post 81

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 8:21amSanction this postReply
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Brendan, Michael, and anyone else tempted,

Though you make interesting points, if I'm not mistaken this thread was started specifically to get away from discussion of L'Affaire, etc and to focus on Rand's Intellectual Development, as opposed to her sexual psychology and other aspects of her personal life. (Yes, I too, understand they are not entirely unrelated but the subject has been done to death and there are other threads for that.)

Please respect that focus and take this sort of thing elsewhere.

(Edited by Jeff Perren on 6/04, 3:49pm)


Post 82

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 9:33amSanction this postReply
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In response to my contrast between The Bronx and Brooklyn, Rick says: "You say tomato, I say tomato."

:)

In some neighborhoods, that might be enough to start a riot.  hehe

To get back to the thread, let me recommend one very important book to readers.  If you've not read it yet, you simply must.  It's Stephen Cox's book, The Woman and the Dynamo: Isabel Paterson and the Idea of America.  It's a superb place to start if you're interested in knowing more about the woman who was Rand's mentor on many important political questions.  Readers no doubt have read Rand's side of the correspondence with Paterson in Letters of Ayn Rand; this book, in many ways, provides another perspective from which to view this crucially important relationship---"crucially important," I think, from the vantage point of this thread.



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Post 83

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 9:53amSanction this postReply
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Good idea, Jeff.

Point very well taken.

Wanna open a specific thread on this Randy bisexual stuff and other goodies, Brendan?

Michael

Post 84

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:13pmSanction this postReply
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Oh, no, Michael, please! Re-read Robert Bidinotto's post on this subject.

Barbara

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Post 85

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:21pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara,

LOLOLOLOL...

All right. A request from you like that is an order to me...

So... you don't like my idea to set up Solo National Enquirer?

//;-)

Michael


(Edit - Sorry, Brendan. No more Randy fooling around. The Woman has spoken...)
(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 6/04, 3:28pm)


Post 86

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:27pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff: “Branden, Michael, and anyone else tempted, Though you make interesting points, if I'm not mistaken this thread was started specifically to get away from discussion of L'Affaire, etc and to focus on Rand's Intellectual Development, as opposed to her sexual psychology and other aspects of her personal life.”

Er, that’s Brendan, not Branden. Hmm. That guy’s signature really runs deep. I take your point, though. In fact, Phil’s original post raises an interesting point about how Rand might have induced her system of philosophy, and whether her distinctive methodology was involved in this process.

In the final word to the discussions in ITOE, Rand talks briefly about how she came up with her theory of concepts, involving half an hour’s presumably highly focused introspection on her own mental processes. The question is: how did she discover the basis for her theory of concepts, since prior to the half hour she was not yet in possession of her theory?

One might suggest a flash of inspiration or intuition, but that risks appeal to mysticism etc. So it would be interesting to know what went on in that half hour. She also says her theory required much more elaboration of the initial insight. I wonder whether there exist any papers that show her mind at work developing her theory from the initial half hour’s introspection.

Brendan 


Post 87

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 3:29pmSanction this postReply
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Michael: “Wanna open a specific thread on this Randy bisexual stuff and other goodies, Brendan?”

Aaw, I don’t know, Michael, sounds rather prurient and salacious to me. My interest is of course strictly intellectual. Hmm, what “other goodies” do you have in mind? Not having lived in Brazil amid the beauties of Copabanca Beach, my tender sensibilities are easily inflamed, and I need to be braced for what’s coming, as it were. But since you’ve raised the subject, I have a question that’s been nagging at me for quite some time: how do Brazilian women keep the sand out of their thongs?

Brendan


Post 88

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 4:29pmSanction this postReply
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Michael..... don't you dare answer that!!!


Post 89

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 4:38pmSanction this postReply
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Well, Brendan,

Out of luck, dude. 

My Woman has now spoken.

Gotta beg off again. It's a man thing... er... ahem...

yeah...

Michael

(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 6/04, 5:39pm)


Post 90

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 8:04pmSanction this postReply
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Just for the record, Mr Bidinotto is not the arbiter of what is & is not taboo here. He's free to state his disapproval of a topic, as is anyone else. He has no right or power to forbid its being discussed. Folk are free to speculate about Rand's sexuality if they wish. I should imagine we're all of us bright enough here to distinguish speculation from assertion, and to acknowledge that there are precious few grounds even for speculation, if any at all. What will not be countenanced, of course, on this or any other topic, is malice & fabrication.

Over the years I have frequently introduced folk to Rand via a TV interview. Often, the instant she has appeared & started to speak, the reaction from them has been something like, "Oh, so she was a lesbian"!! My response has always been, "Everything we know about her sex life affirms the exact opposite ... not forgetting her conscious convictions." And that may well be the truth, the full truth & nothing but the truth. But I won't be told on my own site that I may not even report this!

Linz

Post 91

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 8:56pmSanction this postReply
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Lindsay, I am unpleasantly puzzled by your post. I have no idea why you think that either Robert Bidinotto or I were telling anyone what may or may not be discussed on Solo. We "forbade" nothing.

Barbara

Post 92

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 9:30pmSanction this postReply
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And why would a flash of insight or inspiration be considered as any kind of insinuation of mysticism - what a load of crap.

Post 93

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 10:08pmSanction this postReply
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Sorry about too much banter, folks. This misunderstanding is somewhat my fault. I do apologize.

Back to what made Rand Rand.

Michael


Post 94

Saturday, June 4, 2005 - 10:41pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara—you told Michael to repair to Bidinotto's post, the implication being that that would shut him down. Which is exactly what it did do. Under the heading of "For the record" I am making it clear that no one is authorised to declare any topic taboo apart from the owners of this site (& thus far we've declared *no* topic taboo). Not saying you were doing that, or that Robert did ... just making the situation clear.

Linz

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Post 95

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 9:43pmSanction this postReply
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Linz,

If that were my only problem...


Kat got my tongue.

Michael


Post 96

Thursday, June 9, 2005 - 12:18amSanction this postReply
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Ah, She Who Must Be Obeyed! I understand. If I had a tongue like that I'd expect my lover to want to monopolise it too! No worries. I've no particular desire to see the topic in question aired, but I'm always going to bristle when anyone whose prerogative it isn't presumes to dictate which topics should & should not be permissible here.

Linz

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