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Post 0

Monday, April 18, 2005 - 10:09pmSanction this postReply
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Five million words! Could fragments from Aristotle be among them?

This is of tremedous importance because of its magnitude.

This is potentially the most powerful news event in recent history because it could reignite the respect for and study of the Greeks in particular. The last time the works of the Greeks were discovered in such abundance it ignited the Renaissance.

We have only a fraction of what they wrote. "....There are two things here. The first is how enormously influential the Greeks were in science and the arts. The second is how little of their writing we have."

"A collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation."

Torn. Scattered. Worm-eaten and decayed. Blackened. Invisible to the naked eye and only visible in infrared light. Rising up from the dust of centuries, new work of the great minds of the "pagan" world before Christ and Kant and modernism. At a time when there -were- great and noble minds in the West.

Writers and thinkers who worked in the sunlit youth of the world.

Thank you Kernon, this is great, great, great news!!

The last time I cried with joy at a news event that was an unexpected benevolent universe surprise was over fifteen year ago watching the Germans with sledgehammers on top of that odious wall. That was concrete (pun unintentional)and political. This is more subtle and intellectual.

Rejoice in Greeks bearing gifts.




Post 1

Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:04pmSanction this postReply
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Hey Phil, I'm excited to see this too! More Aristotle would be very nice.

Honestly though, don't you think we already have the best stuff? I expect people kept the best stuff around and the lesser stuff was chucked. We shall see.

If this gets the culture to re-focus on Ancient Greek culture it'd be great.


Post 2

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 5:53amSanction this postReply
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That is some of the best news I've heard in decades!

Kelly and I have mourned the loss of Greek literature off and on for years, so this potential mother lode of transcripts via technology has made my heart race with excitement!


Post 3

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 6:23amSanction this postReply
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I share the enthusiasm of those who've commented on this already.  This is fantastic!  I hadn't considered Philip's idea that this will re-ignite interest in the Greeks, but it makes sense and I can only hope this does just that.

How fitting that the ideas that produced the West have finally produced the technology to recover these works!

Jason


Post 4

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 7:21amSanction this postReply
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While we have better than a good idea about what Aristotle taught, this is not the same things as having the very words of the Master. Wouldn't the second book of his Poetics or a missing dialogue be nice to read?

Or, how about the stuff we KNOW the Christians tampered with? How about an original copy of Josephus? What DID he say--if anything---about Jesus...

The list goes on and on...
(Edited by James S. Valliant on 4/19, 8:19am)

(Edited by James S. Valliant on 4/19, 8:19am)


Post 5

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 8:24amSanction this postReply
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Hi, Lance: "I expect people kept the best stuff around and the lesser stuff was chucked."

It wasn't always a deliberative process. The Christians went around burning and destroying "pagan" intellectual and esthetic works (as well as monuments and sculpture) once they ruled the Med. Some of the stuff was entrusted to someone and forgotten. Then there is the destruction of the library of Alexandria...

Post 6

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 12:57pmSanction this postReply
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Boy, does this ever have the makings of a new Dan Brown thriller... Imagine: the Vatican learns there are explosive new texts in this treasure trove, texts that completely undermine the validity of the Gospels!

Suddenly, translators of the text begin to die horrible deaths... One scribbles a last message on the floor in blood, just before he dies:

"Bened..."

Then Robert Whatizzname, the Dan Brown "symbologist" hero, finds himself whisked away by private jet to Rome, to view the translator's body. He looks at the cryptic fragment of the word on the floor.

Bened.

Bened...?


Then it hits him.

Benedict.

Could it be...a reference to the new Pope?


Ah yes, folks, I just can't wait for the translations.


And for the TV miniseries...


Post 7

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 1:07pmSanction this postReply
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When I was studying Greek and Latin in college, we were reading a commentary on Ovid by some Roman fellow whose name I cannot remember. He made what scholars think is a reference to a third Homeric epic. Maybe it will be among the new texts!

Kelly

Post 8

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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This is indeed magnificent news. Lost Aristotelian fragments would of course be of particular interest to us here, though any classical document is of course of immense value and interest.

Thanks for flagging it up here Kernon.


Post 9

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
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Philip (re post 0) and Matthew (#8):

You're welcome. I received a private email that informed me that "this article is extremely over-hopeful and very hyperbolic." I don't know the facts myself, but even if only some material can be read, it still would be a fantastic thing.


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Post 10

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 7:09pmSanction this postReply
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Kernon,

I can't believe some sourpuss would actually write such nonsense to you.  I'm sorry you even had to read such a "wet blanket" statement.  A smelly musty wet blanket at that.  Isn't the gaining of knowledge to be approached expectantly, and wouldn't such an unusual and rare development give one cause to at least hope what will be uncovered will be of some value?  I don't think it's being overly exuberant to be excited at the prospect of technology being used to discover knowledge.  Especially considering the source of these texts.  We're talking about the Greeks for heaven's sake!

Jason


Post 11

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:21pmSanction this postReply
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> any classical document is of course of immense value and interest.

It was not just the rediscovery of Aristotle that launched a Renaissance, it was the Greek scientists, the Greek historians, the Greek poets, the Greek dramatists. The combined weight of radically different (and eloquent) thought and art.

> Ovid...made what scholars think is a reference to a third Homeric epic.

The only problem with there having been an addition to The Odyssey and The Iliad is that Homer was the most important figure in launching Greek culture. He was the foundation of their schooling so it's not credible he was known in the Golden Age and quietly lost later. We would know. And if he were lost before the 6th Century B.C., the Greeks of the 6th and 5th centuries B.C. would have written about it, lamented it.


>a private email that informed me that "this article is extremely over-hopeful and very hyperbolic."

Based on what argument? If experts, classicists, say this is a monumental find, no one has a basis to doubt them unless he has detailed knowledge in this field. It can't be a sort of free-wheeling cynicism or tendency not to trust the press on politics. Moreover, focus on the sheer quantity: five million words! And it's not laundry lists, but includes Sophocles, Euripides, etc. Even Objectivists are supposed to trust experts in fields or on issues not thoroughly contaminated by postmodernism.

Phil

Post 12

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 9:25pmSanction this postReply
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Hey Phil, can you recount the details of the library of Alexandria? And the burning of it?

Post 13

Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 10:12pmSanction this postReply
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Just a note to anyone who's bought into Dan Brown: all the so-called "facts" in Da Vinci Code are absolutely fraudulent.

Total hoax. Just in case you might be interested.

Alec 


Post 14

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 5:31amSanction this postReply
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Alec, it's clear that YOU are part of the conspiracy...


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Post 15

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 8:39amSanction this postReply
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Robert,
Suddenly, translators of the text begin to die horrible deaths...
Having been a translator for several years, I fail to see the humor in this...

They weren't doing subtitles or dubbing, so the carnage is completely uncalled for.

Besides, the guy was an Italian translator. These dudes are in their own special category. In all likelihood he spoke spaghetti English and couldn't spell worth a damn.

"Bened..." was just his way of trying to write, "Been had."

//;-)

Michael


Post 16

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 9:43amSanction this postReply
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Michael, it's equally clear that YOU TOO are part of the Conspiracy....

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Post 17

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:26amSanction this postReply
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Robert,

You try to kill my ass, of course I am!

Michael


Post 18

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:59amSanction this postReply
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Alec - it's clear YOU've been had by the Vatican.....

Post 19

Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 11:12amSanction this postReply
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Robert M:  I agree that Alec is a secret agent of the Vatican. Or maybe just a "useful idiot," as they say. Either way, he is doing the dirty work of Benedict XVI and the International Catholic Conspiracy in denying the self-evident Truths chronicled in the Dan Brown books.

I say "books," not novels, because any recovering Catholic knows that what he describes simply MUST be true.


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