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Post 0

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 1:42pmSanction this postReply
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The more I read of Christopher Hitchens, the more I get to like him.

Whatever my own concerns over the wisdom of the Iraq invasion, it is a sad sight to see a number of libertarians elsewhere on the internet tying their flags to Galloway's mast.

MH


Post 1

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 2:10pmSanction this postReply
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By the sounds of it, Galloway and the anarcho-libertines deserve one another. My advice to the anarcho-liberarians? If you shake hands with George Galloway, count your fingers afterwards.

Post 2

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 3:07pmSanction this postReply
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I also posted an excellent opinion piece on the deceptive rant made by George Galloway before the US Senate.

http://solohq.com/Spirit/News/534.shtml


Post 3

Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 3:19pmSanction this postReply
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Marcus,

I just sanctioned your news item too ;-)

MH


Post 4

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 4:05amSanction this postReply
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Well, apparently I am not the only one dissenting with Mr Knapp's favorable opinions on Mr Galloway.

Post 5

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:11amSanction this postReply
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Quoth Joel Català:

"Well, apparently I am not the only one dissenting with Mr Knapp's favorable opinions on Mr Galloway."

I don't have a general "favorable opinion on Mr. Galloway." As far as I can tell, he's a fairly typical eurocommie, albeit one with a bit more flair than usual.

Nonetheless, someone needed to go slap Norm Coleman and his fellow Senators around. Barry Goldwater is otherwise occupied (if decay may be considered an occupation) and most American "conservatives" have adopted the administration's Trotskyite line on the war, so Galloway had to do. And, for a eurocommie, he did quite well.

Tom Knapp

Post 6

Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 4:32amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "I don't have a general "favorable opinion on Mr. Galloway.""

I did not say that. You distort what I meant.

I said that you have (and apparently maintain) "favorable opinions on Mr. Galloway."

But well, I also have one favorable opinion on Mr. Galloway: he is frequently more astute than his opponents. But that's something that has nothing to do with morality, the main reason justifying his judgement in harsh terms.

Of course I also think that no individual, including democratically elected presidents, should be friendly to any dictator. And here I mean (at least) from Dhimmi Carter to  George W. Bush

Galloway is only a pixel of the ongoing war against America, the West, and the infidel world.

To have a broader perspective, please keep in mind that in Eurabia is much, much, much worse...

Best wishes,

Joel Català






Post 7

Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 7:17amSanction this postReply
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Quoth Joel Català:

-----
[Mr. Knapp:] "I don't have a general "favorable opinion on Mr. Galloway.""

I did not say that. You distort what I meant.

I said that you have (and apparently maintain) "favorable opinions on Mr. Galloway."
-----

I was clarifying my own stand, not disputing your characterization of it. We agree: Galloway, for all that he often comes off as a buffoon, is an astute politician.

-----
Of course I also think that no individual, including democratically elected presidents, should be friendly to any dictator. And here I mean (at least) from Dhimmi Carter to George W. Bush.
-----

Once again, agreed. However, it would be difficult to make a rational argument that Galloway has been as friendly to any dictator -- in any sense, be it rhetorical or in terms of material aid -- as, say, Donald Rumsfeld.

Tom Knapp


(Edited by Thomas L. Knapp
on 5/26, 7:17am)


Post 8

Friday, May 27, 2005 - 5:58amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "Once again, agreed. However, it would be difficult to make a rational argument that Galloway has been as friendly to any dictator -- in any sense, be it rhetorical or in terms of material aid -- as, say, Donald Rumsfeld."

Do you really think that, Mr. Knapp?

Definitely, Mr. Galloway is much more friendly to dictators than Mr. Rumsfeld. Maybe you can imagine what Mr. Galloway thinks about his ol' friend in Cuba:

Mr. Galloway: "He's a hero. Fidel Castro is a hero"

Besides, on the ongoing war that Islamic fascism has repeatedly declared against us, ask someone on the Middle East ground: ask a Syrian dissident, or ask two freed Iraqis.

Please Sir, step down, and ask them. They will tell you that Iraq was freed by the American troops, commanded by Mr. Rumsfeld, I mean. Those people are thankful to the American troops, and we also should be. I am.

Joel Català







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Post 9

Friday, May 27, 2005 - 8:02amSanction this postReply
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Quoth Joel:

-----
[Mr. Knapp:] "Once again, agreed. However, it would be difficult to make a rational argument that Galloway has been as friendly to any dictator -- in any sense, be it rhetorical or in terms of material aid -- as, say, Donald Rumsfeld."

Do you really think that, Mr. Knapp?
-----

I don't think it. I know it.

-----
Definitely, Mr. Galloway is much more friendly to dictators than Mr. Rumsfeld. Maybe you can imagine what Mr. Galloway thinks about his ol' friend in Cuba:

Mr. Galloway: "He's a hero. Fidel Castro is a hero"
-----

Not nearly as friendly as:

"Here's a check, President Hussein."

Tom Knapp

Post 10

Friday, May 27, 2005 - 8:38amSanction this postReply
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Tom,
I'm sure you can tell the difference between foolish (even egregious) pragmatism for the sake of achieving a political objective,
and actual sharing of values and admiration. Few would seriously suggest that Rumsfeld actually likes Saddam Hussein or considers his a friend.


Post 11

Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:42amSanction this postReply
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Jeff,

Rumsfeld and Saddam friends? Probably not, but they were, at one time, allies.

So Galloway said nice things about Castro. Stupid, but no big deal. I'd be more concerned if he was selling Castro nuclear reactors -- like, for example, Rumsfeld did with Kim Jong Il.

Tom Knapp

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Post 12

Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:46amSanction this postReply
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Tom,
I'm sure you can tell the difference between foolish (even egregious) pragmatism for the sake of achieving a political objective,
and actual sharing of values and admiration. Few would seriously suggest that Rumsfeld actually likes Saddam Hussein or considers his a friend.


I would rather have 1,000 people say they admire Castro than have one man say he hates Saddam but financially support his crimes against humanity.

Post 13

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 6:33amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "So Galloway said nice things about Castro. Stupid, but no big deal."

Why you say "no big deal"?


[Mr. Knapp:] "I'd be more concerned if he was selling Castro nuclear reactors -- like, for example, Rumsfeld did with Kim Jong Il."

Could you provide any link on that? Thanks.

Joel Català



Post 14

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 8:58amSanction this postReply
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Quoth Joel Catala:

-----
[Mr. Knapp:] "I'd be more concerned if he was selling Castro nuclear reactors -- like, for example, Rumsfeld did with Kim Jong Il."

Could you provide any link on that? Thanks.
-----

It was originally reported in the New York Times, but I'm not going to pay the fee for that article. Here's a reprise from the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html

For that matter, you can even discount Rumsfeld's role with North Korea, since he was "only" a board member of the company that sold them the reactors. But with respect to Iraq, there is just no getting around the fact that Rumsfeld was the Reagan administration's envoy to Saddam Hussein, that he visited the dictator, shook the dictator's hand, and arranged for the transfer of US weapons -- allegedly including samples of anthrax and bubonic plague -- to the dictator:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-528574,00.html

At the very, very, very most best and optimistic view of the situation, Rumsfeld has participated in the killing of more than 1,600 Americans to clean up his own mess. A more cynical -- and, I think, more accurate -- view is that it isn't about cleaning up his mess, but about continuing to shovel pork, albeit from a different direction, at US defense contractors, for which he will no doubt be "reimbursed" with more high-dollar sinecures, honoraria and perqs after leaving office.

Tom Knapp
(Edited by Thomas L. Knapp
on 6/01, 9:09am)


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Post 15

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 - 9:55amSanction this postReply
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The Future of Freedom Foundation has an excellent compilation of news articles about how the U.S. gave Saddam WMD. Also see these articles by the New American on the topic, from the 1990s.

Post 16

Thursday, June 2, 2005 - 5:48amSanction this postReply
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I was a follower if the FFF since they demonstrated that they did not apply the same moral standards for Americans than for foreigners, and defended Pacifist/Isolationist positions that even moral people as the first presidents did not take: John Quincy Adams Knew Jihad, and how to deal with it.

Mr. Knapp, thanks for the links. I still think that, apart from the apparent self-delusion and corruption of the American Administration, the toppling of the Taliban and of the tyrant Hussein are a good for itself. And no nation in the world has put into practice better alternatives (let alone the so-called "international community".)

Best wishes,

Joel Català


Post 17

Thursday, June 2, 2005 - 7:24amSanction this postReply
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Quoth Joel Catala:

"I still think that, apart from the apparent self-delusion and corruption of the American Administration, the toppling of the Taliban and of the tyrant Hussein are a good for itself."

So do I -- if they are taken as singular, stand-alone events, entirely bereft of any context. Who doesn't like seeing dictatorships, of both the fascist and theocratic variety, taken out?

However, they can't be taken as singular, stand-alone events, entirely bereft of any context. They each have costs, and they each have consequences.

The most obvious cost has been, as of yesterday, 1,665 dead Americans, 15-20,000 maimed Americans and somewhere in the neighborhood of half a trillion dollars, for Iraq. Only 100-odd American deaths, and less money, for Afghanistan. Of course, the US got less for the money and blood in Afghanistan, too (the idea that the Taliban has been "toppled" is absurd -- the US controls the government district of Kabul, the perimeter of Bagram Air Force Base, and not much else; warlords affiliated with the puppet Karzai regime control perhaps 35% of the country; the Taliban remains at large in, and holds effective sway in, the rest).

I don't believe in sacrificing American lives, American money and American freedom for the altruistic purpose of determining how other people will govern themselves or allow themselves to be governed. I am, in other words, not a Kantian.

What's especially sad is that the costs have not even achieved the allegedly desired consequences. The invasion of Iraq added 25 million people and an extant, scattered arsenal to al Qaeda's recruitment, funding and armament pool. The transition of the US from emergent to full-blown police state can't be blamed entirely on the two wars, but they have certainly been a factor.

Maybe you think what has been accomplished is worth the cost. I don't. Furthermore, I don't regard other people's lives and money as rightfully mine to dispose of in undertaking such projects.

Tom Knapp

Post 18

Thursday, June 2, 2005 - 8:09amSanction this postReply
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Mr. Knapp, thanks for the links. I still think that, apart from the apparent self-delusion and corruption of the American Administration, the toppling of the Taliban and of the tyrant Hussein are a good for itself. And no nation in the world has put into practice better alternatives (let alone the so-called "international community".)


Was fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan a good in itself — even at the cost of arming what became the Taliban? Was fighting the fanatical Iranian regime a good in itself — even at the cost of arming and funding Saddam Hussein?

Is any price appropriate for the purpose of destroying a sufficiently evil State?

Post 19

Thursday, June 2, 2005 - 9:15amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "The most obvious cost has been, as of yesterday, 1,665 dead Americans, 15-20,000 maimed Americans and somewhere in the neighborhood of half a trillion dollars, for Iraq."

The costs are very easy to list. But today that's definitely a defeatist policy. That's propaganda in favor of the throat-slitters. 

To be honest you need to say why those Americans gave their lives.

They died in defense of America. Maybe that will sound collectivist to you, but "America" is the people of America, individuals united by their Constitutional rights, the right of self-defense among them.

Moreover, "yesterday" was not the end of the jihad that is being waged agaist us. To do the final sum, the war has to finish. That should be obvious if it weren't by the deafening maisntream media and the dhimmi intellectuals. 
Then, at the end, someone will do the sum. And I hope the final sum will be done by free individuals.


[Mr. Knapp:] "Furthermore, I don't regard other people's lives and money as rightfully mine to dispose of in undertaking such projects."

Are you saying that you would like to renounce your citizenship? Because, assuming you are an American, know that I would like to swap my citizenship with yours. And be aware that I am not the only one at all.

Get real, sirs: we are at war simply because the Islamicists have declared war against us: including all Objectivists (as "infidels"). And they hate us because of what we are, not because of what we have done.

Another thing: remember that the Muslim throat-slitters (yes, they are not Bhuddists) treat defeatism and meekness not with obsequiousness and eulogy, but with the most utter contempt they can gather. Indeed, a lot.










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