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Post 60

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 8:51amSanction this postReply
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Joel,

You wrote:

"Jihadism and Communism, two of the worst totalitarian ideologies, are alive and well."

Agreed. To that, I'd add state fascism (particularly the Ba'athist variety), and state socialism.

"I don't ask you 'n slaps' per state. That's pure Marxism, and I will assume you don't think this way. That's why I ask you: perhaps do you think the United States is the worst of all 'states'? If not, why you don't give more slaps to the most tyranical 'states' that today are concocting and acting against the freest 'states' of the world?"

No, I do not think that the United States is the "worst" state. As a matter of fact, I think it's among the "better" ones, possibly even the "best." But remember, I am an anarchist. I oppose the state per se. "Better," with respect to the state, means nothing more than "less bad." It doesn't mean "good."

Since I aim to persuade others to adopt that opposition as well, where do I focus my energies? On the states that virtually everyone I communicate with already agrees are bad? That would be of no effect whatsoever in discrediting the state as such. I can bash Ba'athist Syria, Islamist Iran, Communist North Korea, et al all day long -- and they deserve it -- but it would be to no avail. But if I discredit the "better" states, those "worse" states are implicitly incorporated within that indictment. On a tactical level, one attacks the weakest point in the enemy's line -- but on a strategic level, it is the strongest points which must, sooner or later, be outflanked and reduced.

I am simply not interested in defending the "better" states against the "worse" states. I am out to take them all down. To the extent that I act politically within the paradigm of statism, it is to gain tactical advantage and preserve such freedom as possible against the day when the strategic point can be pressed.

"Perhaps before you purchase the ticket to Manila, the Philippine state will have been divided into an Islamic and a secular state"

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. There's never really been an effective state power covering the entire archipelago. Mindanao is probably "naturally" a separate polity. It's never been effectively governed from Manila, and the tax revenue base from it has probably never covered the outlay from Manila in trying to effectively govern it.

I suspect that if Mindanao and the smaller islands gained autonomy, the Islamists and Communists would be even less successful in governing them than Manila has been. For decades, the insurgents have had it easy -- throw a few bombs, behead a few innocents, fade back into the shadows. Let them come out and try to govern, and they lose whatever patina of "underdog rebel" they may have gained over time.

"But without the American state, with all the flaws it has, you would not have any immunitary system actively defending your rights to life and liberty against the much more metastatic states Communist and Jihadist states are."

With the American state, I do not have any immunitary system actively defending my rights to life and liberty against anyone. I just have a big parasite that demands not only to be fed, but to be thanked for eating.

Insofar as metastasis is concerned, Communism reached its high tide and receded, with the Cold War being only partially responsible (if at all -- it's entirely possible that the ability to cite an external enemy increased its lifespan), more than a decade ago -- and the Islamists have never successfully taken over a country which was not either directly handed to them by the West (Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, for example) or where Western support of corrupt states gave Islamist rebellion popular cachet (Iran).

In every place where the West has butted out, or never been involved, the Islamists have been ineffective most of the time and routed when they've become effective enough to pose any threat at all. As a matter of fact, the increasing success of Abu Sayeff/MILF in the Philippines correlates directly in time with the renewed US "assistance" to the Philippines in fighting them. It costs the Manila government more in public support than it gains them in military efficacy to bring in foreign "assistance."

If Islam is metastatic, then US intervention is a catalyst for that metastasis.

Tom Knapp

Post 61

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 8:59amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Gregory:] "And in the long run, the U.S. does pose a grave threat to world peace, hardly matched by other States, if we look at the nuclear arsenals alone."

Why anyone should care of the long run "grave threat to world peace" posed by the U.S. while being targetted by murderous terrorists it's out of my ability of especulation.

Best wishes,

Joel Català


Post 62

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 9:14amSanction this postReply
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Those two sentences sound me a bit dissonant:

1.- "Communism reached its high tide and receded, with the Cold War being only partially responsible."

2.- "If Islam is metastatic, then US intervention is a catalyst for that metastasis."

Are you saying that the American state was "partially responsible" of the defeat of Communism, and at the same time that the American state is a catalyst for Islam?

Why was not America a catalyst for Communism?
Why America will not be partially responsible for the defeat of Islam?

Best wishes,

Joel Català


Post 63

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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It's always puzzled me how people who fret and worry most about terrorists smuggling weapons of mass destruction in to attack the US also seem complacent about the US having within its borders by far the world's largest stockpile of nuclear (and chemical and likely biological) weapons. When their fears are finally realized and there is a mushroom cloud over a US city, will it somehow be a relief that it was 'Made in the U.S.A.'?


Post 64

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 9:43amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "But remember, I am an anarchist."

Mr. Knapp, could you answer that: do you want anarchy to prevail in the world? Thanks.

Joel Català


Post 65

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 10:12amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Aaron:] "It's always puzzled me how people who fret and worry most about terrorists smuggling weapons of mass destruction in to attack the US also seem complacent about the US having within its borders by far the world's largest stockpile of nuclear (and chemical and likely biological) weapons. When their fears are finally realized and there is a mushroom cloud over a US city, will it somehow be a relief that it was 'Made in the U.S.A.'?"

Indeed, when two planes crashed into the World Trade Center, there were some people in the world feeling "relief" and joy. The planes were 'Made in the U.S.A'; how do you feel about that, do you think 'relieved' is the best word?

There were people dancing in the middle of Brooklyn, NY (Coney Island Av. near Foster Av.). They were handing out candies to each other, and celebrating the attacks. Some of them were possibly American. But nothing close to Anarchist ideals. All of them were Muslims. They were being protected by the New York Police because some Americans tried to stop them. How do you feel about that, Mr. Aaron, 'puzzled' is the best word?

Best wishes,

Joel Català



Post 66

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 12:24pmSanction this postReply
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Joel,

You wrote:

"Mr. Knapp, could you answer that: do you want anarchy to prevail in the world?"

Of course. What else could I possibly mean when I say that I am an anarchist?

Tom Knapp
(Edited by Thomas L. Knapp
on 6/07, 12:25pm)


Post 67

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 12:40pmSanction this postReply
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Joel,

You wrote:

"Are you saying that the American state was 'partially responsible' of the defeat of Communism, and at the same time that the American state is a catalyst for Islam?"

The American state may have been partially responsible for the defeat of Communism -- the jury is still out on that question.

I did not say that the American state is a catalyst for Islam. It's not a catalyst for Islam or Islamism.

What I said is that the intervention of the American state is a catalyst for the metastasis of Islamism.

Without US intervention, the Islamists are a ragtag bunch of assholes -- a tiny group with a bad attitude and the capacity to do minor damage. It is only when they are able to credibly invoke the spectre of "the infidel on Muslim soil" that the other 99.999% of Muslims respond with material and moral support. That's why, for all intents and purposes, Islamist terrorism against the US simply did not exist prior to 1993.

Tom Knapp

Post 68

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 12:45pmSanction this postReply
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Tom Knapp:

No, I do not think that the United States is the "worst" state. As a matter of fact, I think it's among the "better" ones, possibly even the "best." But remember, I am an anarchist. I oppose the state per se. "Better," with respect to the state, means nothing more than "less bad." It doesn't mean "good."

Since I aim to persuade others to adopt that opposition as well, where do I focus my energies? On the states that virtually everyone I communicate with already agrees are bad? That would be of no effect whatsoever in discrediting the state as such. I can bash Ba'athist Syria, Islamist Iran, Communist North Korea, et al all day long -- and they deserve it -- but it would be to no avail. But if I discredit the "better" states, those "worse" states are implicitly incorporated within that indictment. On a tactical level, one attacks the weakest point in the enemy's line -- but on a strategic level, it is the strongest points which must, sooner or later, be outflanked and reduced.

I am simply not interested in defending the "better" states against the "worse" states. I am out to take them all down.
What's really amazing is that it's necessary to explain all this to these dolts.

JR


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Post 69

Tuesday, June 7, 2005 - 1:15pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff,

You wrote:

"What's really amazing is that it's necessary to explain all this to these dolts."

You know, sometimes I think I must just be a disagreeable guy, because I always seem to be disagreeing ... but I disagree.

I can understand why someone might ask an anarchist "sure, you want to smash the state, but since there are better and worse states, isn't it tactically advantageous to support the better states versus the worse ones -- to place a higher priority or earlier timeframe on getting rid of an Idi Amin, a Pol Pot or a Nicolai Ceaucesceau than on getting rid of a Junichiro Koizumi, a Vincente Fox or a George W. Bush, even to the extent of temporary allying one's self with the latter group versus the former?"

I personally decline to do so for a couple of reasons.

The first is that it's a losing game. The Koizumis, Foxes and Bushes of the world aren't interested in getting rid of the Idi Amins, Pol Pots or Nocolai Ceaucescus. They're interested in removing old stock from the shelves and putting new stock on the shelves. Today's boogeyman is the guy they put in power with my support 25 years ago. 25 years from now, the people they're installing at this very moment will be the boogeymen. Their goal is not to end tyranny -- it's to perpetually justify their decreasingly less malignant forms of tyranny by being able to point to worse ones.

The second is that, quite frankly, they've never asked for my support. They've simply assumed that they have the moral authority to demand my support, no questions asked, and then take it by force if it isn't forthcoming. To which, of course, the only honorable response is "fuck you and the horse you rode in on."

Tom Knapp

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Post 70

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 3:38amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "The Koizumis, Foxes and Bushes of the world aren't interested in getting rid of the Idi Amins, Pol Pots or Nocolai Ceaucescus."

Assuming you are right on that (and you must know those Presidents very well), what is the Anarchist method of getting rid of the Idi Amins, Pol Pots or Nocolai Ceaucescus of the world? Thanks.

Joel Català


Post 71

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 6:11amSanction this postReply
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Joel-

I read and reread your post #65 and I'm still 'puzzled' as to its relevance. You invoke 9/11 for something. To be sad about it? To be mad about some people you say were celebrating?

OK. Agreed. Now what does it have to do with the fact that having the world's largest WMD stockpiles already within our borders should be of grave concern to anyone consistently worried about "being targetted by murderous terrorists"?


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Post 72

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 6:22amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Aaron:] "Now what does it have to do with the fact that having the world's largest WMD stockpiles already within our borders should be of grave concern to anyone consistently worried about "being targetted by murderous terrorists"?"

My point was that terrorists don't need tons of mustard gas or spectacular WMD to kill thousands of people. They know better than you and me how to use our most (apparently) innocent inventions againt us.
 
Of course, unilateral disarment and the total destruction of the American arms would only be the easiest step to become dhimmis. Precisely, what they want.

Joel Català


Post 73

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 6:59amSanction this postReply
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"Of course, unilateral disarment and the total destruction of the American arms would only be the easiest step to become dhimmis."

Who is advocating destruction of all American arms? I see value in carrying a firearm on my person since it's more likely I'll use it in defense than shooting myself or having it used against me. I'd be incredibly stupid to think the same about wielding a pint of VX. Scale that up to the military.

"My point was that terrorists don't need tons of mustard gas or spectacular WMD to kill thousands of people."

And you believe they are content to use aircraft, ANFO and Ryder trucks and would not like to also use WsMD? If so, that certainly puts you at odds with most of the terrorism fear-mongers.


Post 74

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 7:07amSanction this postReply
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[Aaron:] "And you believe they are content to use aircraft, ANFO and Ryder trucks and would not like to also use WMDs?"

Of course not.

[Aaron:] "If so, that certainly puts you at odds with most of the terrorism fear-mongers."

The issue of WMDs was raised by you, remember. You pointed to the tools of war; I pointed to the ideas behind war.

Joel Català


Post 75

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 7:14amSanction this postReply
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Joel,

You wrote:

"[W]hat is the Anarchist method of getting rid of the Idi Amins, Pol Pots or Nocolai Ceaucescus of the world? Thanks."

This is the "who bells the cat?" question, and if I had an answer to it, it would already be done, or at least ongoing.

In fairness to anarchists, at least two of the three dictators in question were not deposed by "governments of the free world." Pol Pot's regime was defeated by the Communist North Vietnamese, and Ceaucescu was dragged out in the back alley and shot by what were, at the time, people who were in the process of overthrowing the existing state and who had not yet created another.

If I recall correctly, Amin was deposed by the Tanzanian army, but I'm not sure what kind of government Tanzania had at the time. A little Googling indicates that it did not have "multi-party democracy" until 1995 (after Amin's exile), and one alleged "freedom index" rates it as "partly free" and in the lower half of the scale.

Getting rid of tyrants isn't easy, but hopefully we'll figure out a way to do so. And once we've abolished the toy that tyrants play with -- the state -- hopefully inertia will make it easier to prevent the recurrence of same than it was to take it down.

Tom Knapp

Post 76

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 7:43amSanction this postReply
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Anthony raised the issue of the world threat of US WMDs, you brushed it aside saying threat of terrorism was far more important, and I just pointed out they aren't mutually exclusive.

If you can change the terrorists ideas and make them warm and fuzzy toward us then more power to you. I have some doubts about that, and would prefer to at least not potentially supply them with any more effective tools.


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Post 77

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 8:02amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "It is only when they are able to credibly invoke the spectre of "the infidel on Muslim soil" that the other 99.999% of Muslims respond with material and moral support."

False. I see you trusted the Islamic propaganda. According to Islamic law, "Muslim soil" is the whole planet earth, my friend. And that's the canonical version, not the version of an alleged extremist offshoot.

The central goal of Islam is the implantation of a global Caliphate, which is a theocratic, totalitarian state.

"Dar al-Harb" (the House of War, e.g., land "illegally occuppied" by non_Muslims) is Muslim land waiting to be "reconquered" by the Muslim elite.


[Mr. Knapp:] " That's why, for all intents and purposes, Islamist terrorism against the US simply did not exist prior to 1993."

False. In example, ask Jimmy Carter and his employees in Teheran. Or ask the Lebanese Christians (did you ever hear of Bashir Gemayel?). Or ask African blacks neighboring Muslim regions (the Darfur genocidal jihad is not recent news at all). Or ask the Copts of Egypt. Or ask the Armenians.

No:

1.- Terrorism is a method of war used by Muslims since the times of Mohammed: in example, he pioneered the practice of ceremonial mass throat-slitting, while shouting "Allahu Akbar!!!" --which means "Allah is greater". And remember: Mohammed is the personal model for all "pious" Muslims.

2.- If they did not attack before is simply because they were weak. Then, oil money emboldened them. And remember that the Islamist elite is composed by people like Bin Laden, Zarqawi or Qaradawi: all wealthy people.that learned a lot from the much more advanced West, and resumed (not begun) the political program for world domination embedded in the Koran, which reads as a manual of war, and is possibly more brain-damaging than the Mein Kampf.

3.- Please stop spreading the Islamic propaganda and go visit some formative websites:

http://www.jihadwatch.org (news on the ongoing global jihad)
http://www.memritv.com (surveils the Middle East Arab/Muslim media)
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/AhmedShalakamy50521.htm (confessions of a former Islamist; and much more in the homepage).
http://tinyurl.com/9v2su (occidentalis.org: how Europe tries to survive the Islamic invasion).


I mean it: best wishes.

Joel Català






 








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Post 78

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 8:35amSanction this postReply
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[Mr. Knapp:] "Getting rid of tyrants isn't easy, but hopefully we'll figure out a way to do so."

While Anarchism figures out the Anarchist way of getting rid of tyrants, I will support a little bit of real-world constitutional democratic state when they get rid of tyrants in practice.


[Mr. Knapp:] "And once we've abolished the toy that tyrants play with -- the state -- hopefully inertia will make it easier to prevent the recurrence of same than it was to take it down."

Your "Satan" is the state. Fine. But I think you can't see the forest for the tree.

Yes, the state is a huge tree, but evil also exists out of the state. That's because the basic ingredients of oppression an tyranny are wrong ideas and ignorance.

Instead of combating only the state, I try to focus on wrong/evil ideas and ignorance.

Best wishes,

Joel Català




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Post 79

Wednesday, June 8, 2005 - 8:50amSanction this postReply
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"I have some doubts about that, and would prefer to at least not potentially supply them with any more effective tools."

The most effective preemptive action is to combat their ideas. That's the war on ideas. And here we are not winning (the public is terribly misguided about the authentic nature of Islam and the deceitful diplomacy of the Islamic state).

But, meanwhile (and at the same time), there is a physical war. Their terrorist attacks are intrinsically unpredictable (which is not the same as unexpected), so the American preemptive action is legitimate.

Best wishes,

Joel Català


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