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Post 20

Monday, June 16, 2008 - 4:23pmSanction this postReply
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> I've been reading a lot of commentary on the worth of the man and his sense of fairness as an interviewer

I meant not here, but in the media.

Post 21

Monday, June 16, 2008 - 9:00pmSanction this postReply
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> [paraphrased] if you meant x, then i stand by my personal attack

>" I don't respond to Mr. Keer's posts....look at his post...[about me?]... too offensive...insight into Mr. Keer's character."

The lingering bitterness and alienation and contempt so clearly still rankling long afterwards is EXACTLY WHY one doesn't engage in personal insults. Or psychologizing or questioning someone's motives or character or good will as opposed to factual criticism.

It poisons the well.
.
.
.
(I can't believe I still have to explain all this.

Or that people still cling to their divine right to attack the person rather than the practice or the idea: to call someone an 'asshole' or a 'spineless evader' or a 'prissy schoolmarm' - instead of rising to the hard work of precisely and incisively dismantling their arguments or positions with logic and evidence about the actual subject matter.)

Post 22

Monday, June 16, 2008 - 10:12pmSanction this postReply
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Just follow the link, Glenn and read your own hypocrisy you laid out in your own words. You needn't respond to my posts, nor take my word for what is documented for all to see. The parallel to this thread is painfully exact. I was a new poster here. You did the same to me as you whiningly accuse Phil of having done to you, and now you make arbitrary insults when you are called on it. I, at least, will read yours and Kyrel's posts on occasion and sanction them when they have value, even though you both seem like personally miserable fools from the way you treat others. I don't think your past rudeness to me means that you will never say anything of value in the future. I do believe in free will and credit where credit is due.

You, however, seem to have taken to heart the worst of the old NBI days, grudges, and the irrational belief that personal unpleasantness now means that one can judge the "character" and value of thought of another for all the future. The problem with grudges and schisms and the like is that those who engage in them are denying human free will, and enslaving themselves to their own resentments.

Rand made this mistake when she disowned people and all their future acts. Just as people can make mistakes, people can change. Or as you have done here they can persist in them and wallow in their own crapulence. I won't embarrass you publicly in the future by letting you know I have sanctioned you if you make a good point. I am happy to give credit where credit is due without needing your approval in return.

If you don't want to follow the link and look at your own hypocrisy then and admit your own evasion now - blaming it on an unjustified charge of rudeness to which you cannot point - then that's your privilege, your evasion, and your loss. I personally find it helpful and relatively painless to admit my own mistakes. I suggest you try it.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/16, 10:18pm)

Please read the further developments in posts through #30 on this thread.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/17, 1:08pm)


Post 23

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:46amSanction this postReply
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There have been people in the past who have said things to me, or about me, or about someone else whom I respect, which I decided were unacceptable to me.  Based on that evaluation, I would no longer interact with them.  I don’t control this site and I have no say about who posts here (and I shouldn’t have).  My only recourse is to refuse to respond to their postings.

Mr. Keer was one of these people.  What he said to me (and to another poster) was deleted by Joe because it was judged “offensive”.  Mr. Keer is in denial over this, so he disingenuously links to a particular post of his and says that I’m a hypocrite and an evader.  In fact, the post he links to has a link entitled “If you ever want to visit me in New York”, which takes you to the post from which the offensive section was removed by Joe.  And for the record: I never said that I don’t read or sanction Mr. Keer’s posts.  What I said was that I don’t respond to them.

Phil said:

[paraphrased] if you meant x, then i stand by my personal attack

Let me paraphrase your paraphrase:

“If you acted like an asshole, then I stand by my evaluation of you as an asshole.”

 Phil also said:

Or that people still cling to their divine right to attack the person rather than the practice or the idea.

Phil: I do have the right to “attack” a child molester and not just the practice of child molestation.  I do have the right to “attack” a racist and not just the idea of racism.  Do you disagree?  If so, please state the appropriate facts.

Thanks,
Glenn


P.S. Clearly I have responded to Mr. Keer's post, but this will be my last time.  I will continue to "wallow in [my] own crapulence".



 


(Edited by Glenn Fletcher on 6/17, 8:44am)


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Post 24

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 9:12amSanction this postReply
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Phil, I was—and am presently—at work (the only place I have internet access at the moment). So that is why my post was "lazy".

My apologies if I ruined your day.


Post 25

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:07pmSanction this postReply
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Glenn, you are right. I did direct you toward a vulgar post I had written to Chris Baker, if you wanted to continue to engage in your arbitrary and ad hominem insults. It was I who asked Joe to delete that post original post to Chris. I have the email to prove it.

The fact remains that your behavior there was the exact same behavior here for which you now castigate Phil Coates.


(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/17, 12:22pm)


Post 26

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:17pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, it's here.

Note it says edited by me, not "moderator". And it was right where Glenn said it would be.


Post 27

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:22pmSanction this postReply
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First of all, I'm sorry this thread has disintegrated in this way.


And while I have no dog in this fight personally, I feel compelled to respond to what Glenn said here:
Mr. Keer was one of these people.  What he said to me (and to another poster) was deleted by Joe because it was judged “offensive”.  Mr. Keer is in denial over this, so he disingenuously links to a particular post of his and says that I’m a hypocrite and an evader.  In fact, the post he links to has a link entitled “If you ever want to visit me in New York”, which takes you to the post from which the offensive section was removed by Joe.  (Glenn)
(I am only speaking of the link that Glenn mentioned here):
 
If I'm not mistaken, (and Ted, or Joe, will correct me if I am) Ted asked Joe to remove the "offending" portion of that post himself, publicly, and in another thread. I think he did so because the main person at whom it was aimed (I'm not speaking of Glen) had posted remarks that Ted wanted removed from a(n unrelated) thread that Ted had started, and Joe convinced the other poster to delete his remarks, so Ted felt (in the interest of fairness, I think) that his offending passage in the other thread, aimed at that same poster, be deleted as well.
 
This is how I remember the history of the passage Glen is referring to, and its ultimate removal.
(If I am delusional, and misremembering, then, like I said...Ted will correct me. Or Joe will.)
 
Like I said, I'm actually not picking sides here; I'm too tired (plus I haven't read enough of this argument to do so, anyway.) I just wanted to comment on that one post.
 
 Edit: My post crossed both Ted's and Joe's.

(Edited by Erica Schulz on 6/17, 12:24pm)


Post 28

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:41pmSanction this postReply
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I was wrong about the later link, as you can see I have corrected the above post. Here is my email to Joe Nov 2006 asking him to delete my vulgar remarks:

Joe,

Thanks.

While I am at it, can you either delete the entire post of mine: http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/GeneralForum/0944_2.shtml#43 or at least the portion after the second two paragraphs? I understand that this may be against policy. I won't be making any more such requests, but would like the matter over with.

He responded that he had removed the remarks.

Now, that didn't hurt me in the least. I am glad to have been corrected, and this is a lot of hot air that Tim Russert would have found embarrassing, I would assume. Perhaps Glenn can forgive me, or at least let the matter rest in peace.

----

PS, Thanks, Erica. I appreciate someone defending my character, as bad as it is. I'd sanction you, but don't want to be seen as making bribes.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/17, 12:44pm)


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Post 29

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 1:00pmSanction this postReply
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Hello, Ted.  I'm Glenn.  Nice to meet you.

Post 30

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 1:03pmSanction this postReply
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Gosh, I feel so warm and fuzzy, thanks!

(no sarcasm)

Ted

Post 31

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:24pmSanction this postReply
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/08/AR2007020800865.html

As one of the most important witnesses, do you think Mr. Russert would have been called to testify in the potential impeachment (now at Judiciary level) of Bush ?


Post 32

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:26pmSanction this postReply
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Speaking of Baker..

Granted, Melman was no Russert, but that isn't the point.

Phil isn't into popular talking heads. Big fat hairy deal. Phil was critical of this news item's relevance to Objectivism. So what?  It would have been much better reading if Glen had refuted Phil's criticism, instead of refuting Phil the man.  Just sayin'..


Post 33

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:37pmSanction this postReply
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Impeachment for what, Gigi?

Post 34

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:41pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, you provocateuse!

Post 35

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 7:23pmSanction this postReply
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These Articles:        The House voted 251 - 156 to send Rep. Dennis Kucinich's (D-OH) resolution, calling for Pres. Bush's impeachment, to the Judiciary Cmte.
6/11/2008: WASHINGTON, DC:
rtsp://video1.c-span.org/60days/wh061108_impeachment.rm  

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article3786591.ece    


(Edited by Gigi P Morton on 6/17, 7:38pm)


Post 36

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 7:48pmSanction this postReply
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Can you give a transcript or some other link, Gigi? That one wants me to download real player.

Never mind, you edited it while I asked for it.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 6/17, 7:49pm)


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Post 37

Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 7:57pmSanction this postReply
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Violating the UN charter? (SO? How? And who did Clinton ask when he bombed Belgrade?) Not providing troops with combat armor? (Congress passes the budget.) Making secret laws? (Which ones?) This is a garbage list. Only charge seven has any import to me, but Saddam was in violation of an existing armistice. Unless that treaty were repealled, war already existed. You might start a separate thread if you want this discussed, it is "news" of a sort, but not according to Nanny Pelosi.

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