| | Mike,
In fact, survival for the Aborigines of Australia, as for the Innuit and Eskimo among many others would be impossible but for their tools.
I agree, but tools are irrelevant, because they can be had and used before civilization (i.e., by primitive savages).
As for "philosophical systems," what you want to do is replace religion, to say that primitive people have religion, but that civilized people have philosophy. I might be willing to agree. You might not. In other words, by your standard, the works of Thomas Aquinas are primitive, but the works of Confucius are civilized.
Now you are engaging in fallacy. The 'primitive vs. civilized' continuum was originally in reference to men, and now you are taking it out of context and using it in reference to the writings of men. The missed elephant in the room, then, is that in all referenced cases there are these philosophical writings -- these evidences of civilization -- and then we are assumed to have contradicted ourselves, because we are assumed to have made firm categorizations not just between men, but between the various writings of men.
But that would violate a Randian mandate that Catholic Scholasticism is Good, and Oriental Statism is Bad.
C'mon, Mike. Rand, herself, wouldn't agree with that conclusion, or even with that method of argumentation.
She'd admit, perhaps, that there are more things she likes about the politics of Catholic Scholasticism vs. the politics of Oriental Statism, but she wouldn't say that one philosophy is always a good philosophy and that the other is always a bad philosophy. In using this coy example, you're not respecting her depth as a thinker. You're taking a conclusion out of context, and using it as a rhetorical ploy. If Rand said something is good (never mind how she got to that conclusion, or in what context it is good), and if we say that something is bad (never mind how we got to that conclusion, or in what context it is bad), then we're not being "rigorous."
Fallacious.
My reply to Ed focused on his erroneous claims about number being the sine qua non of civilization. My claim was only that a lack of counting was evidence of child-like-ness. I also mentioned that repeated violence (e.g., raids on neighboring tribes) is evidence of child-like-ness.
Thus, even in modern French, the word for "three" is cognate to the word for "many" which Ed offered as a standard for differentiated civilized peoples from primitives.
See above.
So, I challenged Ed (and Steve) by pointing out that Ed's definition would make Aristotle, Da Vinci, and Galilieo "primitive."
See above.
I encourage anyone interested in any of this to read ...
I skimmed it. It's existential. It is supposedly another argument against a commonality of human nature, and it fails (as have all other arguments of the sort).
Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 8/13, 10:48pm)
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