RoR: Forum

Like Michael said in his post above, the production values improved, and I noticed a crispness in the photography and lighting that was appealing. And it did come through that this was a moral defense of Capitalism.

But, I was disappointed with Atlas Shrugged Part II. It was lacking for me as soon as you move away from the production values. I didn't think the part of Dagney was played with much joy or fire. It might be me, but I felt the portrayal had too much anxiety, sadness and pessimism - not in the lines, but in the body language, tone of voice, facial expressions, and pacing.

Overall, the movie felt like a group of scenes that were patched together. I didn't feel the director captured what was happening when Francisco was trying to get Reardon to go on strike. Too many scenes were THERE but didn't seem to have the punch or meaning they should have. If you didn't know from reading the novel what theme was being set up or carried by a particular scene, would it have worked for you?

At times there was a soap opera feeling to the movie, and it seemed to drag. We all know that there is more content available from the novel than would fit in a three-part movie, so it should never drag. The pace should have been fast, and slowing down just a touch to signal important speeches.

I really love that novel, and I'm fairly forgiving when it comes to suspending reality enough to watch a film that is less than perfect, but I found myself thinking, in the middle of the film, that this wouldn't excite young people, and would probably fail to communicate what it should to those who aren't already fans. If it wasn't just me or some mood I was in, then I'm laying the problem at the feet of the director.

Post 21

Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 9:32am

Steve,

If you didn't know from reading the novel what theme was being set up or carried by a particular scene, would it have worked for you?

Contrary to the vast and common experiences of others, I only read a fiction book after I have seen the movie about it. The only exception to this in the past 25 years is Anthem (I read Anthem without first seeing a movie about it). I did not read The Fountainhead until after I saw the movie. I have never read Atlas Shrugged. I saw AS1 and I plan to see this movie this weekend. While being just a case study, I will be able to tell you if it worked for me.

Ed

Post 22

Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 12:39pm

I thought it was alright, I think Hank Rearden's actor did a good job and I liked the way they did Fransico's money speech, it needed to be cut down for the movie. However, I think the acting was lacking in some places, such as when Dagny said "who is John Galt?" during the plane chase.

I went to see it with friends and they pointed out how the board walking to the board meeting scene was unnecessary. They also said Dagny's actor could have done a better job and it would be hard for non-readers to follow but since Ed was able to follow it, that belief may be incorrect.

Also, I don't remember the order of events too well, but shouldn't Ragnar have been in this part? I was hoping he would make an appearance.

Finally, was the part where the judges said "we need an example, not a martyr" in the book? I can't remember it being in the book and I thought it was a good addition.

Post 23

Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 8:36pm

Steve,

I didn't think the part of Dagney was played with much joy or fire. It might be me, but I felt the portrayal had too much anxiety, sadness and pessimism - not in the lines, but in the body language, tone of voice, facial expressions, and pacing.

I felt the same way (I just saw AS2 tonight)! The Dagney of AS1 had a quiet and (most-importantly) confident intensity that was missing this time. I guess they were trying to depict her getting increasingly unsettled by the altruism/collectivism-caused dismay going on all around her. Anxiety, sadness, and pessimism? Yes, that's what I got from her body language.

I didn't feel the director captured what was happening when Francisco was trying to get Reardon to go on strike.

If you are talking about the dialogue scene in the steel factory (just after the emergency), that is one of the times when I said "Huh, what just happened here?" Reardon said something about questions, Francisco said something about answers, and then he just got up and left. Knowing the recurring theme of Francisco attempting to persuade Reardon and Dagny -- my mind filled in the pieces:

Reardon, by offering Francisco a job in his factory, implicitly gave Francisco the answer he was seeking: that Reardon was determined to remain working inside of a non-capitalist system. Having that answer, there was no longer a reason for Francisco to stick around (so he got up and left).

At times there was a soap opera feeling to the movie, and it seemed to drag.

I got that feeling, too. For instance, there was a long close-up of Dagny looking at the John Galt Line bridge made out of Reardon steel -- just before it is about to be dismantled. It reminded me of scene from a soap opera. There were a few other instances like this but I can't recall them right now. That's the problem with soap operas, because they are "naturalistic" -- you cannot recall them.

Ed

p.s. My 2 favorite lines from the movie were the following line from Reardon (found at: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged ) at his hearing:

... if they believe that they may seize my property simply because they need it - well, so does any burglar. There is only this difference: the burglar does not ask me to sanction his act.

Though I think in the movie he said: "the burglar does not ask me for my permission."

... and the line from the fella who used to work alongside John Galt at the 20th Century Motor Company, where he said new management loaded responsibility onto the shoulders of those with the most ability but dispensed compensation based on raw need, and then went on to say how this made men of ability shrink and it made the needy grow -- pitting each worker against every other worker.

p.s.s. Would someone with a copy of Atlas Shrugged please post this last quote here?

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 10/13, 8:40pm)

Post 24

Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 8:23am

Ed, to answer your last point, I hope you don't freak out but that character, Jeff Allen, was transmogrified. This happens in myth. In the book, Jeff Allen was a bum found sleeping in the vestibule of Dagny's car. The conductor was going to throw him off the train - physically from a moving train - but Dagny stopped him and ordered a meal for the man: his bearing said that he was not a looter. He told her the story of the 20th Century Motor Company.

For one thing, it merged two separate events: Jeff Allen, and the stalled train. In the book, she hands Allen a $100 bill and hires him on the spot to take charge of the stalled train while she and Owen Kellogg go off to find help. For another, in the book, the train is abandoned. The crew walked off. Not in the movie, it is not just the best people who are quitting. In the wake of Directive 10-289, anyone with a shred of self-respect is walking off the job. The Unification Board replaces the missing people in factories with their own thugs.

She does not know that Owen Kellogg is going to The Valley. The acquisition of the airplane is a bit ambiguous in the book. Apparently, it was abandoned when its airline collapsed and Dagny talks her way into leasing it, but... Kellogg knew the plane was going to be there and in good shape, though it sat next to a charred wreck.

Several in our group thought well of the character of Jeff Allen as portrayed. Personally, for myself, he was the one character in the movie who actually felt real. (The actor, Jeff Yagher, has a long string of credits, and is accomplished in several aspects of the craft, especially make-up.Read his IMDB biography here.)

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 10/14, 8:40am)

Post 25

Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 10:31am

Mike,

Thanks for responding.

... she hands Allen a $100 bill and hires him on the spot to take charge of the stalled train while she and Owen Kellogg go off to find help.

Wait a minute. I own the DVD for AS1 so I put it back in and skipped to the scene to verify: Owen Kellogg quit Taggart Transcontinental and left for the valley ("vanished") at just 25 minutes into the first movie. This doesn't seem to square with what you are saying. If Owen Kellogg is already gone (read "vanished"), then how can Dagny go off to find help with him? My understanding of the chain of events leads me to believe that Owen Kellogg should not even appear in this second movie (except at the end, when Dagny's plane crashes in the valley).

Ed

p.s., I liked the Jeff Allen character best, too. In his short time on screen, I developed an attachment to him that I couldn't even get from an hour's worth of exposure to the other characters.

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 10/14, 10:37am)

Post 26

Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 5:37pm

I really liked part 2. I think part one was washed down and slow, while part 2 was action packed and full of well pointed witty objectivist morality.

Post 27

Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 11:33pm

Ed: Spoiler Alert!

In the first place, the Valley cannot support everyone and not everyone has the wherewithal to retreat to it. It was located and purchased after the Strike began, actually.

We see Kellogg again after he quits TT and before he helps Dagny. He an anonymous workman lashing down machinery on a flat car leaving Connecticut for Colorado. An old-fashioned business man, Mr. Mowen of Amalgamated Switch and Signal who later joins the looters stops to watch him and complains about firms leaving for Colorado. "What have they got there?" he asks. "Maybe it's what they don't have," replies Kellogg. The Stike is not a vacation. The strikers only work below their level of potential. Kellogg quit being an engineer and works as a laborer. John Galt is a gandy dancer.

People go to the Valley for the summer, if they can, John, Francisco, Ragnar, of course. (John in in the Railway Workers Union. He gets generous vacation time, apparently.) But then as more strikers need to avoid the law, those with the means build homes and start businesses, in the Valley.

Man... You are missing soooo much....

Post 28

Monday, October 15, 2012 - 12:10am

bleh, Im working 7 days/week and have not been able to see ittt!!

Post 29

Monday, October 15, 2012 - 4:45am