About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Post 0

Sunday, December 27, 2015 - 8:50amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Somewhere the film franchise lost the soul of the original movie, most likely due to perverse incentives wrought by focusing on merchandise development rather than story development.



Post 1

Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 4:15amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

People settle in to their jobs. They lose the fire. We are fans of several TV series, building a disk library, actually - Bones, NCIS, Grey's Anatomy, West Wing, NUMB3RS. The best thing about the last two is that they ended. I think that West Wing held up longer, actually running its seven-year arc with consistently good writing. However, it was not consistently great writing.  Aaron Sorkin was sick and dropped out of Seasons 3 and/or 4, as I recall.

 

NUMB3RS ran out of energy just as the cast gelled into a production team. Unfortunately, the writers were stuck, and I think that the producers were afraid of getting too mathematical, even though that was the draw of the show.  In fact, for that, at first, I was not impressed at all, but one of my professors, for Remote Sensing, talked it up, so we gave it a second look. 

 

The same problem hit Big Bang Theory. They had a physicist advisor writing a Big Blog Theory to support the show. But by Season Three or Four, it was just a goofy kind of Friends.

 

So, for myself, one of the reasons that I work as a contractor is that each assignment is a new challenge. I do not fall into a routine, taking the job, my clients and theirs, for granted.

 

And just to note: I did not read Ed's review in order to avoid spoilers. Tonight is our anniversary and we are going to see the movie.  Star Wars was our first date, October 31, 1977. I saw it at least once before that. My ex took me to it, in July, as I recall. 



Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 8:28amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Sometimes a movie is just a movie.  Sitting beside my 11-year-old son watching Star Wars: The Force Awakens in 3D was one of the highlights of our holiday season.  It was fun, pure and simple.



Post 3

Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 10:18pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Awesome!



Post 4

Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 4:45pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

We saw it last night. We were pretty sure that we had seen it before. Discussing it at work with another fan, the movie deviates from the post-Lucas story arc.  Here in Austin, a few years ago, I attended a National November Writers Month (NaNoWriMo) with the now-late (sadly) Aaron Allston (Wikipedia here) and as a result of that, I read through several of his and others' Star Wars novels. Trying to avoid spoilage here, I just note that, like Atlas Shrugged or Pride and Prejudice, you have a core of fans who know the work inside and out. Beyond that, you have the masses who just want common enjoyment.

 

The problem of the second-hander plagues the current Star Trek movies, which also are under the artistic control of J. J. Abrams. While splitting off an alternate universe gave the story writers a lot of freedom, it also violated several fundamentals. The love relationship between Uhura and Spock is just one. One of the rules of the Star Trek universe (as controlled by Paramount) was that no new romantic relationships could be introduced between existing characters.  In part, that was to deflect the many Spock-Kirk love stories that fans were writing.

 

With Star Wars, the relationship lived by Han Solo and Leia Organa after the Return of the Jedi had already been defined in professional fiction (not fan fic) under the license of Lucasfilms by Aaron Allston and several other writers.  Just check your local bookstore or library. This is known. So what? In the worst case, it is Courtland Homes.

 

In The Fountainhead, picnicking with Gale and Dominique, Roark explains to Wynand that we inherit the wheel and invent the automobile.  But in another scene, Keating confesses that he has not brought so much as a new doorknob to architecture.  The gang that took over Courtland made their own changes, but none of those was an inventive improvement.  So, too, with Star Wars: The Force Awakens

 

(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 12/31, 4:54pm)



Post 5

Friday, January 1, 2016 - 5:57amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

For those well-versed in the deeper aspects of the Star Wars Expanded Universe (EU) via the novels, comics, etc., can you share any insights into the economic aspects of life under the Old Republic, the Galactic Empire, and the New Republic?

 

Did these ancillary products discuss this subject at all, e.g. how the Empire could finance these massive war projects and how the Rebel Alliance financed their resistance?

 

Did the average denizen notice much difference in day-to-day life economically under any of these government systems?

 

The Old Republic had legal slavery per The Phantom Menace which leaves me wondering if the Empire abolished it to curry favor among the denizens.

 

A Google search led to some interesting hits such as this one:

“The outlook appears very grim for the common Imperial citizen,” he said. “I think it is unlikely the Rebel Alliance could have found the political will and financial resources to provide the necessary banking bailout until it is too late.

“It may be that the Force is awakening 30 years after the events of Episode VI because of the economic forces at play,” Feinstein said.

A somewhat more "official" though still fan-based explication comes from here:

It is important to note that economic differences between major galactic eras were negligible.

 

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 1/01, 6:28am)



Post 6

Friday, January 1, 2016 - 7:22amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

"No" is the easy answer. "For those well-versed in the deeper aspects of the Star Wars Expanded Universe (EU) via the novels, comics, etc., can you share any insights into the economic aspects of life under the Old Republic, the Galactic Empire, and the New Republic?"  

For one thing, while perhaps "versed" I cannot claim to be well-versed. 

 

That said, let me recall a discussion on another forum about a different universe. On the old WELL (Whole Earth 'Lectonic Link, now a Salon property), in a Star Trek discussion, I complained about the lack of serious economics. The entire society of the Federation seemed dominated by Starfleet. In the orginal series, we met only two traders, Cyrano Jones (tribbles) and Harry Mudd (women).  Neither was admirable and we never saw any money change hands.  In an early episode of Star Trek: Next Generation, the Enterprise rescues a cryonic pod of early 21st century people. One of them is a "businessman" (ahem) who demands to speak via subspace communicator with his stock broker. Captain Pickard only sighs.  There no stockbrokers; there is no money. "Rather than purusing material possessions, we improve ourselves." So, absent money, how do they know whether to build a mining colony or something else? In that discussion, I was disabused of my own notions. "We get Christians here who complain about the lack of religion in Star Trek..."  In other words, take it on its own terms.

 

So, too, with Star Wars.

 

I do agree, Luke, with the thesis that you are laying out: the failure to think through these problems is indicative of a deeper failing, from a lack of philosophical premises.

 

I would go so far as to say that fictionalized communist propaganda would be better because at least plot and theme would be integrated. Back around 1965, Isaac Asimov edited two volumes of science fiction from writers in the USSR. Projecting the future was at once serious and problematic specifically because Marxism is a theory of history. One assumption they made - or were allowed to make; or were required to make - was that any technologically advanced society would be socially advanced.  We make the same claim but from different premises: you cannot have material wealth without economic freedom. 

 

That speaks to the problems that Ed Hudgins found in the economics of Star Wars: trade federations, banking conglomerates, and all that, but very little in the way of actual economics.  In fact, in The New Hope, Obi Wan Kenobi steals what they need by using Jedi Mind Tricks to pay with imaginary credits. 

 

I maintain that there is no such thing as science fiction, or historical fiction, or vampire fiction. It is all just mainstream fiction with different dress-up. Sometimes Shakespearean troupes will do a play in modern dress. I saw Julius Caesar that way once... in case the meaning was lost on you when they wear togas... In another discussion in a numismatic forum about an alternate future story, "The Woodrow Wilson Dime" the point was made that we cannot (easily) imagine what the world would be like today if the South had won the Civil War or if (as per Dinesh D'Souza) George Washington had been killed in battle. We do not live in that world. All we can imagine is our own time and place with some of the trimmings changed, but without being able to actually create a consistent world unlike our own.



Post 7

Friday, January 1, 2016 - 7:35amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Thanks for the reply, MEM.

 In fact, in The New Hope, Obi Wan Kenobi steals what they need by using Jedi Mind Tricks to pay with imaginary credits. 

Did you mean The Phantom Menace where Obi-Wan Kenobi managed to bail Anakin Skywalker from slavery?

 

I have no recollection of the described scene from A New Hope.



Post 8

Friday, January 1, 2016 - 8:04amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

Ah, yes, Luke, your memory is better than mine. 



Post 9

Sunday, January 3, 2016 - 9:30amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

I really wish they would do a good Darth Bane trilogy.  



Post to this thread


User ID Password or create a free account.