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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 10:50amSanction this postReply
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This from a man who says on a scale of 1 to 7 he is a six in the strength of his gut feeling that there is no god.

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 1:29pmSanction this postReply
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What's your point? This quote could easily have been uttered by someone who believes in God. Its pretty ambiguous on the author's position.

Post 2

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 11:54pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

True that. Since his case is mostly based on probabilities, I suppose he should rank himself a 6. I think it's the law of identity arguments that push a person to 7.

Ryan,

Note the author is the world's most famous atheist. Sorry you didn't enjoy his flair.

Post 3

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:42amSanction this postReply
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I was just commenting within the context of the quote given along with Ted's post. I actually had no idea who this guy was until you just told me. Knowing he's an athiest Ted's post makes a bit more sense.

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Post 4

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 8:36amSanction this postReply
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Please look at the picture to the right, and divide the people into two biologically different groups.

------

Dawkins is not really a full atheist, just a "six out of seven" in his own words, because, well, you never can know.

Not only is the man an outright Marxist, not to mention a reductive materialist. His basis for his own atheism is not the Objectivist rejection of the arbitrary, but rather methodological skepticism.

It hardly makes sense for him to criticize theological relativists from a skeptical standpoint. The only reason he thinks he can get away with this is because he thinks he is wrapped in the mantle of science. But he doesn't really know what science is.

Oh, and he's a condescending bigot. If you read his Ancestor's Tale he prints a picture of Rumsfeld, Powell, Bush and Rice and asks the reader to classify the people into two groups. Well, Rice is a woman and the others aren't. Wrong! He expected you to classify them into black versus white, because, as Dawkins well knows, his readers are racist. Sorry, Richard, but it was you who asked for the classification, and you who got it wrong.

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Post 5

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 9:54amSanction this postReply
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I'm not going to get into a food fight with Ted about Richard Dawkins, but I am going to say that having read several of his books, I have enormous respect for the man. I have enjoyed nearly everything of his that I've read.

And I haven't read anything advocating statism, racism or altruism. I don't know what his beliefs are in politics or ethics - and whatever they are, he hasn't been pushing them in the books I've read. I'll wait till I see quotes purporting to show otherwise that are in their context.
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For those who aren't familiar with him, here are some quotes - I've not put many that deal with his main subject, evolution, but rather his opposition to religion. He became very active after 911.

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
----

"It is often said, mainly by [some religious folk], that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
----

"Could we get some otherwise normal humans and somehow persuade them that they are not going to die as a consequence of flying a plane smack into a skyscraper? . . . Offer them a fast track to a Great Oasis in the Sky, cooled by everlasting fountains. Harps and wings wouldn't appeal to the sort of young men we need, so tell them there's a special martyr's reward of 72 virgin brides, guaranteed eager and exclusive.

"Would they fall for it? Yes, testosterone­sodden young men too unattractive to get a woman in this world might be desperate enough to go for 72 private virgins in the next. . . .

"Give them a holy book and make them learn it by heart. . . . As luck would have it, we have just the thing to hand: a ready­made system of mind­control which has been honed over centuries, handed down through generations. Millions of people have been brought up in it. It is called religion. . . Now all we need is to round up a few of these faith­heads and give them flying lessons.

"... I am trying to call attention to the elephant in the room that everybody is too polite--or too devout to notice: religion, and specifically the devaluing effect that religion has on human life... Religion teaches the dangerous nonsense that death is not the end...

"There is no doubt that the afterlife-obsessed suicidal brain really is a weapon of immense power and danger...

"Religion is also, of course, the underlying source of the divisiveness in the Middle East which motivated the use of this deadly weapon in the first place. . . . To fill a world with religion, or religions of the Abrahamic kind, is like littering the streets with loaded guns. Do not be surprised if they are used."

-- Richard Dawkins, The Guardian, Sept. 15, 2001
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"To blame Islam for what happened in New York is like blaming Christianity for the troubles in Northern Ireland!" Yes. Precisely. It is time to stop pussyfooting around. Time to get angry. And not only with Islam."
----

"The human psyche has two great sicknesses: the urge to carry vendetta across generations, and the tendency to fasten group labels on people rather than see them as individuals. Abrahamic religion gives strong sanction to both and mixes explosively with both. Only the wilfully blind could fail to implicate the divisive force of religion in most, if not all, of the violent enmities in the world today. Without a doubt it is the prime aggravator of the Middle East. Those of us who have for years politely concealed our contempt for the dangerous collective delusion of religion need to stand up and speak out. Things are different now. "All is changed, changed utterly."
-----

"Molecular evidence suggests that our common ancestor with chimpanzees lived, in Africa, between five and seven million years ago, say half a million generations ago. This is not long by evolutionary standards. ... in your left hand you hold the right hand of your mother. In turn she holds the hand of her mother, your grandmother. Your grandmother holds her mother's hand, and so on. ... How far do we have to go until we reach our common ancestor with the chimpanzees? It is a surprisingly short way. Allowing one yard per person, we arrive at the ancestor we share with chimpanzees in under 300 miles."





Post 6

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:26amSanction this postReply
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Steve, what is the point in beginning your post with a personal insult? Unable to counter my perfectly valid assertion that Dawkins is not the spotless hero you would apparently rather pretend, you imply that I am merely throwing food? Cranky this morning?

I have read all of Dawkin's biology books, and apparently have understood them much better than you, including his occasional condescending liberal-elitist anti-American bullshit. How exactly you expect me to find a quote of Dawkins saying "I am a statist" is beyond me. But here's just a tiny hint at what he believes from wikipedia:

Dawkins has expressed concern about the growth of the planet's human population, and about the matter of overpopulation.[127] In The Selfish Gene, he briefly mentions population growth, giving the example of Latin America, whose population, at the time the book was written, was doubling every 40 years. He is critical of Roman Catholic attitudes to family planning and population control, stating that leaders who forbid contraception and "express a preference for 'natural' methods of population limitation" will get just such a method in the form of starvation.[128]
As a supporter of the Great Ape Project – a movement to extend certain moral and legal rights to all great apes – Dawkins contributed an article entitled "Gaps in the Mind" to the Great Ape Project book edited by Paola Cavalieri and Peter Singer. In this essay, he criticises contemporary society's moral attitudes as being based on a "discontinuous, speciesist imperative".[129]
Dawkins also regularly comments in newspapers and weblogs on contemporary political questions; his opinions include opposition to the 2003 invasion of Iraq,[130] the British nuclear deterrent and the actions of U.S. President George W. Bush.[131] Several such articles were included in A Devil's Chaplain, an anthology of writings about science, religion and politics. He is also a supporter of the Republic campaign to replace the British monarchy with a democratically-elected president.[132]

If you want to quote Dawkins' sometimes eloquent statements, I don't oppose that. But admiring his sometimes eloquence no more requires us to close our eyes to his very serious faults than does quoting Ann Coulter, whom I have had no trouble criticizing when she too deserves it.

Surely you don't actually want me to spend my time documenting Dawkins' flaws. Or do you?


(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/17, 10:47am)


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Post 7

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 11:07amSanction this postReply
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Ted,

You exasperate me!

You said, "Steve, what is the point in beginning your post with a personal insult? Unable to counter my perfectly valid assertion that Dawkins is not the spotless hero you would apparently rather pretend, you imply that I am merely throwing food? Cranky this morning?"

I was being humorous when I said I didn't want to get into a food fight - it is not an insult! It would take two and it can be fun and funny, or not, and given your expertise in language, surely you noticed that my statement was about the future - meaning I was not saying your post was throwing food. How many ways can you screw up the interpretation of that simple sentence? It was not a personal insult!

It is you that have decided to go with personal attacks - not me. You are implying that I'm cranky, that I have a childish hero-worshiping attitude towards Dawkins.

You wrote, "I have read all of Dawkin's biology books, and apparently have understood them much better than you..." My, what a sound argument and deeply interesting premise - how could I ever have considered that exchanges with you on this subject (which you'll remember I was not interested in) would (in even a humorous fashion) resemble a food fight.

As to your condescending advice that I not close my eyes to his faults... Well, I have no problem addressing content on its merits. If you'll recall, I've sanctioned various posts of yours, complemented you on your eloquence, and yet I have no difficulty in saying that you are quite capable of posting gratuitous crap quite unworthy of you.
--------------

I gave a personal opinion - a kind of review and it was qualified. Here it is: " I am going to say that having read several of his books, I have enormous respect for the man. I have enjoyed nearly everything of his that I've read. And I haven't read anything advocating statism, racism or altruism. I don't know what his beliefs are in politics or ethics - and whatever they are, he hasn't been pushing them in the books I've read."

Then I gave a number of quotes to let people see for themselves the kinds of things he says about faith, God, and religion.



Post 8

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 11:35amSanction this postReply
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Okay, I will accept that you were being humorous. I assume you grant my opinion of Dawkins is not arbitrary, baseless or uniformed.

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Post 9

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 12:43pmSanction this postReply
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In general, I, too, have long enjoyed Dawkins' books, and as was with Carl Sagan, tho enjoyable, didn't mean agreed with everything written or said by him...

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Post 10

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 1:37pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

Steve isn't the only one that read a tone of protest in your post 4.

I am aware that Dawkins isn't the most stellar philosopher.  The God Delusion more than hints at some dodgy moral premises.  I think he's one of the major players defending "reciprocal altruism".  I didn't think there would be a controversy considering the Ann Coulter, Will Wright, & Thomas Sowell quotes that frequent our gallery.

But I too, have been swept by his witty prose.

(Edited by Doug Fischer on 9/17, 1:40pm)


Post 11

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:16pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

We might have some disagreements on some of the finer points of evolution - more like technical issues. And they would be minor and amicable in all ways.

As to differences regarding Dawkin's beliefs on altruism, politics, epistemology... we probably don't have any disagreements in the areas, so we would be in agreement in our opposition to his ill-formed opinions - say in ethics. Objectivists were split over the invasion of Iraq, so that wouldn't be a good thing to criticize Dawkins on. I'm quite used to finding out that someone I like in one area, like biology, is a bit of an idiot in another area.

I loved his selfish gene approach, his eloquence in explaining evolution, his work in generalizing to take evolution beyond the biological, the extended phenotype and the idea of memes. And I love the passion he brings to opposing religion and pseudo-science. (I've borrowed from the Extended Phenotype, with modifications, to formulate some of my own ideas on human culture.)

I like those things that I have mentioned, and I see him as a definite, committed, certain, and assertive atheist - no hedging on his part - so your post seemed without balance. I didn't want to argue any of your points, just to say that I see it differently and to offer quotes so people could decide on their own if they wanted to read any of his work.

Yes, I grant your opinion of Dawkins is not arbitrary, baseless or uniformed - but to me it seemed somewhat out of balance and somewhat harsh in condemning the man.

Post 12

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 3:18pmSanction this postReply
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A tone of protest?

Come on guys. First, what part of . . .

"If you want to quote Dawkins' sometimes eloquent statements, I don't oppose that. But admiring his sometimes eloquence no more requires us to close our eyes to his very serious faults than does quoting Ann Coulter, whom I have had no trouble criticizing when she too deserves it. "

. . . don't you understand?

In case I haven't made it clear, (and I obviously have) the man is a condescending elitist. He is a down-to-the-roots Marxist, from his metaphysics to his politics. His selfish gene theory is quite flawed, and his original theories are of very little weight with actual biologists. He is an enthousiastic supporter of the British welfare state, including socialized medicine. He is a skeptic. He is a pacifist. He's an advocate of legal rights for apes. But not individual humans. He thinks its a good idea for atheists to call themselves "brights." And yes, like that political moron Carl Sagan, he can write well.

In another age he would have been called a poleznyj idiot. Nowadays he would make an excellent Czar for the Obama administration, except for his contempt for Americans - Oh, wait, that will help.

But he is a very good prose writer. And I should be a good partisan and refrain from criticizing anyone on "our team."

So never mind.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 9/17, 4:02pm)


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Post 13

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 4:40pmSanction this postReply
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Not only is the man an outright Marxist, not to mention a reductive materialist. His basis for his own atheism is not the Objectivist rejection of the arbitrary, but rather methodological skepticism.

Leave it to Ted to find just the right words which best express that gnawing, "there's something wrong with this.."

Don't stop! I always enjoy Ted's criticisms.  


Post 14

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
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Ted,

I specified that I was replying to your post 4.  I understood you quite well.

(Edited by Doug Fischer on 9/17, 7:02pm)


Post 15

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 7:37pmSanction this postReply
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I understood that Doug. I just thought it funny that you would characterize my full bore scream of protest as a "tone."

The rest of the post was me repeating myself for Steve's sake.

I do find Dawkins interesting as a popularizer of biology. There was a long standing debate between Dawkins, who supported the view of the gene as the "unit of selection," versus Stephen Jay Gould who supported the "group" as the unit of selection. The standard Darwinian (and Aristotelean, for that matter) position is that the individual organism is the "unit" of selection.

Entities are primary. Genes do not have any existence or expression outside of individual organisms. The phenomena of pleiotropy (multiple effects) and epistasis (interactive effects) guarantee that a gene has no intrinsic nature, no non-contextual essence. All claims for selection that supposedly benefits genes or supposedly benefits groups can be restated as benefitting the reproduction of some organism. Even the evolution of sterile worker bees is essentially organismic. There is not some one selfish gene that causes the phenomenon of sterile workers. Nor does the phenomenon of sterile workers benefit the species or some higher group. The phenomenon of worker sterility provides more successful progeny for those workers.

There is, as you might guess, a huge literature regarding this. Rather than confuse the matter unnecessarily simply keep in mind that in reality parents give birth to babies, not genes to genes or species to species. This should be obvious for metaphysical Aristoteleans. You can read Ernst Mayr's criticisms of genic and group selection.

Besides Dawkins' muddled metaphysics, there is the question of his politics. Carl Sagan is a huge influence in my life, on par with J. R. R. Tolkien who interested me in linguistics and just behind Rand. He is another wonderful popularizer of science. But his political beliefs were atrocious. There's no point in pretending otherwise, no matter how wonderful a book Demon Haunted World is. Dawkins, so far as I am aware, is much, much worse than Sagan ever was. Anyone who wants to know just how bad Dawkins' statism and altruism are can do the research himself, if he cares. As it stands, treating Dawkins the skeptic as a trusted ally just because he is critical of the religious and their certainty is a terrible mistake. But I think I've made that clear.

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Post 16

Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:52pmSanction this postReply
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I disagree that unit of selection is the individual or the group. Dawkins has it right. It is the gene (or as he puts it, the active germ-line replicator). We have three levels that we can look at here. The genes, the organism (with its extended phenotype) and the environment in which the action takes place. The business about Aristolean metaphysics and Ernst Mayer's criticisms can be set aside by anyone that wants to look at it with fresh eyes.
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Ted says, "Entities are primary. Genes do not have any existence or expression outside of individual organisms." That has nothing to do with the question of what is the unit of selection.
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Ted says, " The phenomena of pleiotropy (multiple effects) and epistasis (interactive effects) guarantee that a gene has no intrinsic nature, no non-contextual essence." That's only true if your purpose is to discuss the gene as molecular biologists might. On the other hand, if you refer to the gene as the unit of heredity, there are no problems. And since that is what we about in this discussion of biological evolution it makes more sense. In this context, to say that pleiotropy and epistasis make it impossible to have a gene with a workable identity would be akin to saying that since your exact pattern of electrochemical brain activity is never going to be exactly the same as mine, we can never share any understanding. Depends upon how you define understanding - that electrochemical pattern, or the concept it facilitates?
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Ted says, "...keep in mind that in reality parents give birth to babies, not genes to genes or species to species."
But the genes make the baby. You are never going to have a baby without genes, and it is the inheritance of genes that let traits pass from one generation to another. If that combination of genes work very well when that baby becomes old enough to start having babies that have the same gene sets that make them successful in leaving behind fertile offspring... Well, that's evolution. That gene set is out-competing it's competitors by leaving more offspring. But it isn't the genes that interact directly with the environment - that has to be done through the organism. It is the organism that has the beak or claws or wings or whatever (acquired from the genes) that it uses to be successful.
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We can imagine a species that is wildly successful because it of a capacity that allows it to completely overrun its competition (it has to be an inheritable advantage). Now, if we ask what forms might that capacity take, we can conceive of different answers. We could imagine that a genetic change resulted in a new phenotypical expression better equipped for the environment at hand, or we can image a change in the environment that greatly favors a particular inheritable trait over those possessed by its competitors. Or we can imagine that the individuals begin doing something to their environment that gives them an advantage - like the first beavers to build a dam (the dam, Dawkins argues, is an extended phenotype).
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You could look at the individual as the unit of selection, but what do you mean by that? The phrase "unit of selection" is only meaningful in this post because of the context of evolution. What is it that continues on through time - it is a trait of some sort that is a product of a set of genes. The particular individual does not continue on. The organism leaves offspring and dies. Someone might say, "But the gene is just a set of molecules and they die with the organism," but "gene" means the inheritable pattern, not that specific organism's molecules. It is that pattern that is being repeated in the offspring. It is the cause of the phenotype. It would be silly to say the environment is the unit of selection, yet it has every bit as much to do with this interaction. You aren't going to find organisms running about trying to survive without an environment. And the organism FOR THE PURPOSE OF EXPLORING THE CONTINUATION OF PHENOTYPES is a product of the genes as if the genes were just using the organism to leverage themselves into the next generation. The gene is the unit of selection, but it is a group of genes, a 'cooperative' set of genes that effect the survival, the reproductive results and that is why they are the causal agents. To measure we need standards. We have units of measurement. For biological evolution the unit is the gene, the organism is the expression, the effect and the effector in its environment, and that environment is the other half of the equation. The extended phenotype is a simple recognition that not all phenotypical expressions are physical parts of the body, but are none the less a mechanism that can effect the differential reproductive rates of the organism.

(Edited by Steve Wolfer on 9/18, 8:41pm)


Post 17

Monday, October 26, 2009 - 12:58pmSanction this postReply
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Metaphor, not Science

Steve, I am sorry, but Richard Dawkins' theory of genic selection, if taken in a strong sense, is fatally flawed. The flaws are not only conceptual and philosophical. Dawkins' theory has no actual biological import. It creates no new models, no new equations, makes no testable predictions which differ from existing theories. In the words of Richard Feynman, it's "not even wrong."

What does it mean to say that a gene is the unit of selection? The concept of natural selection was developed by analogy from what is called artificial selection, the conscious choice of stock breeders to allow certain plants and animals to reproduce, while culling others from the population either by sterilization or harvesting. Just as the breeder selects certain animals to propagate and certain plants to cull based on the desirability of their traits, nature can be said to select which organisms will breed based upon their differential adaptedness to conditions.

Now it is most certainly true that an organism's traits, which are referred to collectively as its phenotype, are largely determined by its genetic endowment, what is called it genotype. (We can stipulate, but further ignore for this discussion that an organism's phenotype is also radically contextual to its environment. For our purposes we can treat environment relatively constant.) It is essential to grasp that the relationship between an organism's traits and its genes is not a direct or transparent one. Each gene, assuming for the moment that we know what that word means, has multiple potential effects. (For example, the gene which causes huskies to have blue eyes also causes deafness.) This multiplicity of effects is called pleiotropy. And how each gene works is influenced by a multitude of other genes. (For example, a gene which causes albinism can block the expression of a gene for red hair.) This contextuality of expression is called epistasis. The effect of these phenomena is that there is virtually no trait which exists in a one to one relationship with a specific gene.

Let us examine a striking example of the fact that selection works on phenotypes (the characters of organisms as wholes) as opposed to genotypes. Consider the K/T extinction event. If we look at the land organisms that survived the asteroid strike that killed the dinosaurs, we notice one very striking correlation. No land organism larger than 50 kilograms survived the event. Needless to say, this wiped out the vast majority of dinosaurs - all except the birds. And the largest survivors were the ancestors of the modern crocodiles, which were shielded from the effects of the impact by their largely aquatic lifestyle. (There were many fully terrestrial crocodilians. These all went extinct.) The other survivors included birds the size of gulls and smaller, mammals that resembled the opossum, and the elephant shrew, and lizards, snakes and turtles. This selection of animals based on their size was quite dramatic. So the obvious question arises, what gene would a gene selectionist say was being selected for here?

And the extinction of the dinosaurs is by no means an exceptional example so far as selection, only so far as dramatic impact. If a bird preferentially eats black moths, it may spare moths that carry a gene for greyness instead of blackness, or it may spare moths that carry the gene for blackness, but also carry a gene for white spots or for albinism. Traits are always traits of organisms. There may or may not be one specific identifiable gene which causes a trait. But the gene itself is never selected, only the organism expressing the trait.

And, of course, there is the problem of what a gene is. If we try to define a gene as a specific sequence of DNA, we run into the issue that identical sequences of DNA may be found in different genes and have entirely different effects. Also, two different genes can have two different sequences, but have the same effect in the organism. Extra DNA bases added onto the end of a gene may have no or little effect, while the imposition of just one DNA base pair into the middle of a sequence will cause what is called a frame shift error, radically distorting or entirely deactivating the effect of that gene. And during sexual reproduction, genes routinely become crossed with each other, such that the chromosomes you pass on to your children will be mixed partial combinations of the chromosomes you inherited from your parents. Genes are far from well defined immortal units. Any definition of a gene based merely on base pair sequence is inadequate. One is always forced back on to a functional definition of genes. And the function of a gene is an emergent property of the organism, not an atomic property of the base pairs.

Let's also look at selection for the sickle cell anemia trait. If it makes sense to say that a gene is what is selected for in evolution, then we would expect to say that a gene is either selected for or it isn't. In areas where malaria is endemic, the sickle cell anemia gene becomes quite prevalent. Humans carry two copies of every gene except for those genes carried on the X and Y sex chromosomes. If a person carries one copy of the sickle cell anemia gene, his blood cells will have a deformed shape which conveys a potent immunity to the malaria-casuing microorganism, with only a negligible drop in blood function. But if a person carries two instances of that gene, the result will be sickle cell anemia which, untreated, will almost always lead to death by acute anemia in childhood. Not having the gene will not cause anemia, but it will also cause susceptibility to malaria, which itself is also highly likely to cause death before reproduction. The effect of the benefit of this trait is to lead to a dynamically stable rate of a 50% frequency of this gene in the population. Each parent will likely carry just one out of two copies of the gene. (Having two or zero copies is usually lethal.) And as a matter of statistics, they will produce one out of four children who will die from sickle-cell anemia due to inheriting two copies of the gene, two children who will be healthy immune carriers of one copy of the gene, and one child who will die form malaria before reproducing. If this were selection for the gene, it would reach 100% frequency. It is not. It is selection for the trait on the scale of the individual organism.

And of course the proof of the pudding in science is the fruitfulness of the idea. Ernst Mayr, the "dean" of evolutionary biology, (Jared Diamond calls him "one of the greatest biologists of our own day," E. O. Wilson calls him "one of the grand masters"), says "we have already refuted this claim for the gene [as the unit of selection]" (What Evolution Is, p 130) and "it becomes quite clear that a gene as such can never be the object of selection. It is only part of a genotype, whereas the phenotype of the individual as a whole (based upon the genotype) is the actual object of selection." (p 126).

Let's compare selfish gene theory with another notion of a similar (1972) age in the literature. The theory of punctuated equilibrium, a similarly controversial notion of Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldredge, has had a quite different trajectory. It was long noticed that there are very few (practically no) examples of gradually intermediate transition stages between species in the fossil record. This was for a long time attributed to the imperfect, fragmentary nature of the record. Eldredge and Gould suggested that during the act of speciation, a population becomes genetically destabilized, and subject to rapid change, but then becomes stabilized again when a new fitness peak is reached and the new species becomes well established. This notion was widely treated as pseudo-science at first, but it does fit in with the notion of peripatric, rather than dichopatric speciation. (This is the notion that speciation is usually a result of rapid change in 'founder populations colonizing a small area on the edge of an older population, rather than the older notion of the gradual split of a large population as a whole into two over time.) Their hypothesis has been verified by statistical analyses of the fossil record. It reflects the fact that species show remarkable morphological stasis over time, and swift, rather than gradual origins. It matches with models of the genetics of small versus large populations. Mayr treats their theory as not even controversial, saying "They pointed out that if such a new species [derived from an isolated founder population] is successful and becomes effectively adapted to a new niche or adaptive zone, it may subsequently remain unchanged for many hundreds of thousands if not millions of years. Such a stasis of widespread populous species is widely observed in the fossil record."

So, we have a phenomenon like punctuated equilibrium which is widely observed in the fossil record, versus a phenomenon like genic selectionism which isn't even found in directly observable populations like the carriers of sickle cell anemia. Genic selectionism fails as science. The theory produces no new discoveries, no new concepts, no new equations. In any formulation it is given it is either banal or false. It has no rigourous formulation which makes any predictions not already expressed by prior theory.

Although The Selfish Gene is entertaining, eloquent, thought provoking, and quite effective at pointing out such false theories as evolution "for the good of the species," (and is the first book on evolution I ever read), it has neither produced any new science nor been integrated into the canon of evolutionary biology. Dawkins has gone from presenting himself as a revolutionary at the time his book was published to a defender of the orthodoxy. This is not because his ideas (like genes as "replicators," organisms as "vehicles," and the organism as the "environment" of the gene) have been adapted in the form in which he originally presented them, but due to the fact that he has retreated over the decades from his earlier positions. Dawkins doesn't do science so much as he does metaphor.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 10/26, 10:16pm)


Post 18

Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 10:25amSanction this postReply
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The Children of Richard Dawkins

I argued above the Richard Dawkins does not do science. What, then, does he do? Well, you can read this paper submitted by Susan Blackmore to the Journal of Consciousness Studies, 10, 4-5, 19-30, 2003 to see who uses his ideas, and how.

From Wikipedia:

Susan Blackmore has made contributions to the field of memetics. The term meme was coined by Richard Dawkins in his 1976 book The Selfish Gene.

In his foreword to Blackmore's book The Meme Machine (1999), Dawkins said, "Any theory deserves to be given its best shot, and that is what Susan Blackmore has given the theory of the meme."


Excerpt:

Consciousness is an illusion.

There are several ways of thinking about consciousness as an illusion. Most important is to distinguish them from the view that consciousness does not exist. To say that consciousness is an illusion is to say that it is not what it appears to be. This follows from the ordinary dictionary definitions of “illusion”, for example “Something that deceives or misleads intellectually” (Penguin); “Perception of something objectively existing in such a way as to cause misinterpretation of its actual nature.” (Webster). This point is frequently misunderstood. For example Velmans (2000) wrongly categorises Dennett’s position as eliminativist when it is better described as the view that consciousness is an illusion. I shall explore a version of this position here.

On this view human-like consciousness means having a particular kind of illusion. If machines are to have human-like consciousness then they must be subject to this same kind of illusion. I shall therefore explore one theory of how this illusion comes about in humans and how it might be created in machines; the theory of memetics.

Human beings as meme machines

Memes are ideas, habits, skills, stories, or any kind of behaviour or information that is copied from person to person by imitation (Dawkins 1976). They range from single words and simple actions to the vast memeplexes (co-adapted meme complexes) of science, art, religion, politics and finance. There are interesting difficulties concerning definitions (Aunger 2000, Blackmore 1998), and whether memes can be said to be replicated by means other than imitation, but the essential point is this. When people copy actions or words, those actions or words are copied with variation and then selectively retained and copied again. In other words the actions and words (the memes) fulfil the conditions for being a replicator in a Darwinian evolutionary process (Dawkins 1976, Dennett 1995).

This new evolutionary process can only run if the replication process is good enough (has high enough fidelity). Some species of birds, and some cetaceans, can copy sounds with high fidelity, and their songs are therefore memes. But very few other species can imitate at all. Even chimpanzees and orangutans are, at best, poor imitators and there is much debate over the extent to which they are really able to copy observed behaviours (Dautenhahn and Nehaniv 2002). Humans appear to be the only species that readily and easily imitates a wide variety of sounds and actions. This suggests that we alone are supporting this second evolutionary process; cultural or memetic evolution. If this is so human evolution must have taken a very different course from that of other species once we became capable of imitation. I have suggested that human brains and minds were designed by the replicator power of this new process and that this explains why humans are so different from other species (Blackmore 1999).

There are two aspects of this that are relevant to machine consciousness. First there is how we living humans got to have such large and peculiarly capable brains (the co-evolutionary story). Second is how our individual minds and our sense of self and consciousness are designed by memetic pressures (the developmental story). Both are relevant to the possibility of machine consciousness.

. . .

Mind design by memes

The second relevant issue is how memes design individual minds; that is, how the design process of evolution unfolds in the case of individual people infected with a lifetime of competing memes.

We spend our lives bombarded by written, spoken, and other memes. Most of these are ignored. Some are remembered but not passed on. Others are both remembered and passed on. Some are recombined in novel ways with others to produce new memes. Note that there is much dispute about whether we should use the word ‘meme’ to apply only to the behaviours themselves, only to the patterns of neural representation (or whatever underlies their storage inside brains), or to both (Aunger 2000). I shall stick to Dawkins’s original definition here, treating memes as “that which is imitated”, or “that which is copied”. So I shall not distinguish between memes instantiated in books, computers, ephemeral behaviours or human brains, since all can potentially be replicated.

On the memetic hypothesis, human development is a process of being loaded with, or infected by, large numbers of memes. As Dennett (1995) puts it “Thousands of memes, mostly borne by language, but also by wordless ‘images’ and other data structures, take up residence in an individual brain, shaping its tendencies and thereby turning it into a mind.” (Dennett 1991 p 254). Language is the mainstay of this process. We have brains specially designed to absorb the language we hear (see above), to deal with grammar, and to imitate the particular sounds of the language(s) we grew up with. By the age of about three years the word “I” is used frequently and with increasing sophistication. The word “I” is initially essential to distinguish one physical person from another, but very rapidly becomes used to say things like “I think”, “I like”, “I want”, “I believe” “That’s mine” and so forth, as though there were a central self who has opinions, desires and posessions. In this way, I suggest, a false notion of self is constructed.

There have been very many theories of the formation of this illusory self (Gallagher & Shear 1999). The difference between other theories and the memetic theory proposed here lies in the question “Who benefits?”. Previous theories suggest that either the individual person or their genes are the primary beneficiaries; memetic theory suggests that the memes are (Dennett 1995). I have argued as follows (Blackmore 1999); once a child is able to talk about his or her self then many other memes can obtain a replication advantage by tagging onto this growing memeplex. For example, saying a sentence such as “I believe x” is more likely to get ‘x’ replicated than simply saying ‘x’. Memes that can become my desires, my beliefs, my preferences, my ideas and so on, are more likely to be talked about by this physical body, and therefore stand a better chance of replication. The result is the construction of an increasingly elaborate memetic self. In other words, the self is a vast memeplex; the selfplex (Blackmore 1999).

The selfplex and the illusion of consciousness

The result of the memetic process described above is that physical, speaking, human bodies use the word ‘I’ to stand for many different things; a particular physical body; something inhabiting, controlling and owning this body; something that has beliefs, opinions, and desires; something that makes decisions; and a subject of experience. This is, I suggest, a whole concatenation of mistakes resulting in the false idea of a persisting conscious self.

The view proposed here has much in common with James’s (1890) idea of the appropriating self, and with Dennett’s (1991) “centre of narrative gravity”. There are two main differences from Dennett. First, Dennett refers to the self as a “benign user illusion”, whereas I have argued that it is malign; being the cause of much greed, fear, disappointment, and other forms of human suffering (Blackmore 2000). Second (and more relevant here) Dennett says “Human consciousness is itself a huge complex of memes....” (Dennett 1991 p 210).

There is reason to question this. Dennett’s statement implies that if a person were without memes they would not be conscious. We cannot, of course, strip someone of all their memes without destroying their personhood, but we can temporarily quieten the memes’ effects. Meditation and mindfulness can be thought of as meme-weeding techniques, designed to let go of words, logical thoughts, and other memetic constructs and leave only immediate sensory experience. The nature of this experience changes dramatically with practice, and it is common for the sense of a self who is having the experiences to disappear. This same selflessness, or union of self and world, is frequently reported in mystical experiences. But far from consciousness ceasing, it is usually described as enhanced or deepened, and with a loss of duality. If this experience can justifiably be thought of as consciousness without memes, then there is something left when the memes are gone and Dennett is wrong that consciousness is the memes. It might then be better to say that the ordinary human illusion of consciousness is a “complex of memes” but that there are other kinds of consciousness.

This is, however, a big ‘if’, and raises all the problems associated with first-person exploration of consciousness (see Pickering 1997, Varela & Shear 1999). At present we should not think of this so much as evidence against Dennett’s view as a motivation for further research and self-exploration. It might turn out that if meditation is even more deeply pursued and the selfplex is completely dismantled, then all consciousness does cease and Dennett is correct.

The alternative I want to defend here is that memes distort consciousness into an illusion rather than constitute it. On this view the underlying consciousness itself remains unexplained but we can understand the particular nature of ordinary human consciousness in terms of the selfplex. By creating the illusion of self for their own survival and replication, memes are responsible for our false sense that there is always an ‘I’ having experiences, and for the inherent dualism that bedevils all our attempts to understand consciousness.



Post 19

Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 12:04pmSanction this postReply
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If an individual chooses not to think, then his belief system will be the product of accidental encounters with various external influences and his current emotional state. His resulting belief system will largely be an accidental product of time and place. At that point it becomes interesting to treat different sets of related ideas, e.g., Catholicism, as a meme-sets and watch them use the individual to propagate and proselytize - to replicate new carriers for the meme-set. And to do comparisons between memes, determining which are effective, and by what means. If man isn't the prime mover in shaping his ideas, then they will shape him and there is an entire science to be developed here... in conjunction with, or as a part of, psychology.

On the other hand, if individuals exercise even the tiniest bit of volition and critical thinking when encountering this or that meme-set, that brings a new causative force in the picture.

That is part of how I see our universe. We can abstract different levels of causation. At the lowest level are those properties, like in billiard ball that relate to physics and chemistry. Moving up the scale, there are replicators - which include genetic evolution, and blind memetics. They exist within the world of physics and chemistry of course, but they achieve more far reaching effects by propagating an effect that can itself propagate that effect. And then there is the first-cause of volition. This is an area of thought that I find fascinating.

Susan Blackmore's determinism 'determines' her use of the concept of memes to explain human consciousness. Like with Dennet, it is such a waste of intelligence to work so hard to contradict the fact of choice and to ignore the basic contradiction that choosing to argue against choice entails.

I find great value in Dawkin's writings and, Ted, I'm surprised at the intensity of your attack on him. Instead of examining the concept of "unit of selection" you have done more of an almost personal attack on Dawkins and with arguments that fall far below what I'd expect of you. (I'll provide specifics a bit later).

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