RoR: Forum

My initial take on this mosque was that it shouldn't be built at Ground Zero on public land, but I have since found out that it is being proposed to be built on private property adjacent to the Ground Zero site.

After talking it over with people and reading different views, I've come to the conclusion that my initial take was wrong. If any religious group wants to build any religious structure next to Ground Zero on private property, they should have the unfettered right to do so, even if they want to build a radical Islamic madrassa that celebrates the destruction of the Twin Towers and preaches hate.

Freedom of speech and of religion means not just allowing but vehemently defending the right of people to say things you find abhorrent and wrong. There isn't any NEED to defend popular speech. You have to defend the rights of people you hate and despise if you want to uphold the freedom Ayn Rand sought to spread -- otherwise, your own rights are up for auction the instant the politicians you favor are out of power.

Post 1

Monday, August 9, 2010 - 3:31pm

, even if they want to build a radical Islamic madrassa that celebrates the destruction of the Twin Towers and preaches hate.

They won't be "free" to avoid the harassment that will surely follow this horrible mistake. Pickets, pit-bull journalists and bloggers who won't let go, attempts to dig up the slightest bit of dirt on officials, mocking tee-shirts with insulting images of Mohammad, transgendered tourists Facebooking photographs of themselves at the front door, etc.

The possibilities are endless.

And I'll cheer them on ever step of the way.

Post 2

Monday, August 9, 2010 - 5:09pm

This is interesting -

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/08/weird-twist-in-ground-zero-mosque-more-dishonesty-developer-owns-only-part-of-the-property.html

Post 3

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 7:38am

>>>Freedom of speech and of religion means not just allowing but vehemently defending the right of people to say things you find abhorrent and wrong.<<<<

It's all very good - if it goes all ways. Somehow I doubt they would allow KKK build next to this mosque (or "center"). Somehow I doubt that there will be many people "vehemently defending" KKK rights "to say things you find abhorrent and wrong".

We are told all the time to be more sensitive to Muslim feelings. Everything is controlled - our words, our behavior. What freedom of speech are you talking about, where did you see it? People are getting killed for innocent cartoons.

I do not like to see Muslims building this mosque and they should understand why. It's easy.

I am Russian. In many countries, especially Eastern European countries, locals don't like Russians. I can understand their feelings, even though I personally had nothing to do with Soviet or Russian politics. I just avoid confrontations and in some places even avoid speaking Russian. I don't see why "peace-loving"(?) Muslims are not capable to do the same: avoid confrontation, have some respect toward people feelings - don't build it!

(Edited by Maria Feht on 8/10, 7:43am)

Post 4

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 8:36am

Ah, but that's the catch - they're NOT 'peace loving' Muslims here, but lying, cheating, obfuscating sharia lovers who seek to surreptitiously impose that on others...

Post 5

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 8:17pm

Well, Robbie, there's the rub. One man's Muslim fanatic is another man's Christian.

Back in the days when people paid attention to The John Birch Society, it was said that the Communist Party of the USA should not be allowed in elections because they only wanted to seize power in order to do away with free elections. In Masters of Deceit, J. Edgar Hoover warned that even though communists carry the American flag in their parades, it is on;y a subterfuge. Then 30 years later, George W. Bush's brother handed him Florida on a silver platter. Darn...

When I think of Islam, I see Magribi merchants and librarians in Baghdad. But that is what I want to see.

Really, you have to ask, should churches be allowed in New York City?

Post 6

Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 6:58pm

I do not like to see Muslims building this mosque and they should understand why.

I don't much like them building this mosque in this location either, but on principle I will vehemently defend their right to do so on private property they own.

Post 7

Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 7:59pm

As long as freedom of speech and other laws apply only to few and selected groups of people - there is no law, there is no freedom of speech. It's propaganda, which uses all these pretty words to make it feel right. If you want to defend something - make sure that it exists for all people, not just our Muslim friends.

Post 8

Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 9:25pm

Maria,

Freedom of speech is still observed in this country. The other principle in play is property rights. Property rights are not being observed as consistently as freedom of speech, but to join those who violate them isn't going to make things better.

If rights aren't observed for all, or if laws aren't applied to all, you fight for recognizing everyone's rights and to apply the law objectively.

I find everything about building this Mosque to be repulsive, and I'm sure it will be funded by Saudis who favor the Caliphate, done to celebrate the destruction of the World Trade Center and in hopes of promoting Sharia. But either you respect individual rights or you don't. Either you stand by the rule of law or you don't.

The minute they find the Mosque sending even 1 dollar to a recognized terrorist group, then it becomes moral and legal to tear it down. Until then, we don't have any right to interfere.
------------

I found these two clips (part 1 and part 2) very interesting.

Post 9

Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 3:31pm

I'm rooting for the Red Eye guy who's opening a gay muslim bar on the same block. Beck's interview with him was hilarious, and brilliant.

"72 virgin drinks," I mean, the concept is pure genius!

Post 10

Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 4:52pm