About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Forward one pageLast Page


Post 20

Monday, February 6, 2012 - 2:07pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I can't and won't make assumptions about female body builders. I don't know any.

Post 21

Thursday, February 9, 2012 - 12:34amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

To Steve (Post 18) and William (Post 19): Prior to replying in detail your recent posts, I must ask you to reply with complete honesty the following question: Do you carry any tattoo? Please, no excuses and no beating around the bush.

To start with I will clear my position additionally: Religiosity and tattooism correspond to the same mentality running on parallel tracks, the difference merely being that while religious people think they are “embellishing” or “enhancing” their ‘souls’ with their faith, tattooists think they are “embellishing” or “enhancing” their bodies. Both evade stressing what characterizes or should characterize us as human beings: our mind, the faculty to reason. Most often religious and tattoo-carrying people mingle; thus, a survey determining how many religious people tattoo themselves against how many atheists do so would be most interesting… and, perhaps, even utmost revealing, in a way similar to the fact that only 1% of the prison population are atheists, while the vast majority of these cellblock inmates are religious and tattoo-minded.

Teresa (Post 20): You don’t need to know any female bodybuilder personally to reach an opinion about them, just as you don’t have to know Hitler, Stalin, Castro or any other Stalitler personally to reach an opinion about their evil mentality and misdeeds. Magazines, newspapers, TV, the Internet, etc. supply sufficient information for it. I lived most of my live under the rule of dictator Perón’s regime but although I never met him personally, I learned very early and very thoroughly its full badness.

Your comment is, thus, most inappropriate for the high intellectual standard “RoR” has or, I should rather say, used to have, for since you became their editor, a most noticeable intellectual downgrading became evident. The place no longer bristles with all those deep burrowing writings (excepting those of Machan and Younkins who are also, unfortunately, becoming scarce) and its frontispiece became a this-age Movietone Newsreel, instead of what its real purpose should be: the warring forefront of people fighting to establish a full-fledged Objectivist society in the very shortest possible time.

P.S. in general: I noticed that my finger slipped when I wrote my quote, for “tattoo” carries, of course, a double-t. Sorry for the slip. Could the management, perhaps, correct it? I would welcome it.



Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 22

Thursday, February 9, 2012 - 1:33amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I have one.
I am an athiest as well as an objectivist.
I do not mingle amongst the tattooed hordes of which you speak of.
However I dooo look like one in other ways.
Swedish ancestry 5' 10" 240 pounds (not fat) I shave my head (I have male baldness pattern and refuse to look my age even though I am 42 I look 30).
So while I looook like I may tear someone's arm off and beat them with it and am capable of such deeds due to having trained in martial arts for over 12 years I am in temperment more akin to ferdinand the bull.

It is all a part of my hiding in plain sight ideal.

I am living proof that you definately cannot judge a book by its cover.

P.S. when I was a younger man I scored 162 on an IQ test. Needless to say mensa was slobbering all over themselves in their attempts to get me to join their society. I politely declined as I found it all rather boring.

As to your charge to it being TSI's fault that this website no longer has what it had look no farther than kilbournes character assassination of linz as well as the likes of shitbags like michael stuart kelly and all the other douchebags at objectivist living that turned into a collectivist tribal horde poking their nose were it did not belong...how they can even have objectivist in their website is beyond me...I don't think they have tattoos either. Although msk might have barbara brandons face tattooed on his scrotum.

Post 23

Thursday, February 9, 2012 - 11:46pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
To Jules (Post 22): I have to give in in your case. As the saying goes: The exception proves the rule. ;-)


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 24

Friday, February 10, 2012 - 7:38pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Manfred,

Your comment linking Teresa to a downturn in RoR is just crude -- and rude -- speculation. Now, you might be angry with her, but it is not just impolite -- it is also unintellectual -- to go ahead and say what you did. I do not think that Teresa specifically, or RoR editors in general, have anything to do with any downturn here. This place is not like a newspaper where the editor puts things together. Instead, this is a grassroots place where the people contribute -- or do not contribute.

I believe that you should apologize to Teresa for making the spurious inference that she is responsible for any kind of a downturn here.

Ed


Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Post 25

Friday, February 10, 2012 - 7:43pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Good grief.

Manfred...

Never mind. You aren't worth it.


Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 26

Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 11:24pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Tress: Manfred has a long and distinguished record of posts, such as this one, "Ayn Rand and the End of Malthus." Myself, I find it laden with questionable assertions, highly personal perceptions. And yet... it is good Objectivism.

I agree with you (and everyone else, it seems) tattoos and piercings are just a different kind of necktie. Myself, I go for t-shirts.


Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 5, No Sanction: 0
Post 27

Friday, February 17, 2012 - 3:31amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I wouldn't say Manfred offers good Objectivism. I wouldn't say he grasps the logic required (developed and understood long before Rand) to apply the discipline in any meaningful way.  I think his understanding is superficial, at best.

Comparing female bodybuilders to Nazis is compelling evidence of this. At least it is to me.  


Post 28

Friday, February 17, 2012 - 11:59pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

To Mike (Post 26): Thank you for your words of praise. I appreciate them.

To Teresa (Post 27): For whatever reasons you may have, you may and can dislike me, but I will not allow you to construct lies against me by misconstructing the analogous comparison I presented in Post 21, for there – as anyone else can easily notice – I DIDN’T compare dictators with female bodybuilders (it would be ridiculous to do so). What I did was to present the analogous way in which an opinion can be formed or reached about a certain fact or a certain person without having ever had a personal contact with said fact or person. In relation with logic I recommend you to read “Fallacy: The Counterfeit of an Argument,” by W. Ward Fearnside and William B. Holther and David Kelley’s “The Art of Reasoning”.

Either you stop constructing lies and misconstructions about what I write or, else, the RoR staff will come to notice that its editor has a serious problem with both the English language and logic.  


Post 29

Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 6:07amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
You can't even create a good analogy, Manfred.

Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 30

Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 5:36pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
You don't have to know Stalin personally to know that Stalin was evil. (OK. I understand that.) You do not need to know any female body builders to know ...
what? I do not understand what the analogy is intended to imply. Does Manfred intend to claim that female body builders are evil?

Myself, long ago here on SOLO/ROR, I incurred the wrath of Lindsay Perrigo for saying that his friend the tennis pro who loved The Fountainhead was silly for devoting his life to tennis. Myself, all I ask of my body is that it carry my brain around. So, it is easy enough for me to denigrate jocks.

Over the long course of the last five or six years, I can grant that Manfred has had some interesting posts.

That said, I find this getting farther and farther from useful dialog.

I work with droves of computer programmers and industrial designers, most of whom are tattooed and pierced. They seem to be fairly well centered.

It is not for me. I grant that. But I hesitate to generalize.


Post 31

Sunday, February 19, 2012 - 12:44pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Manfred,

In answer to your question: No, I don't have any tattoos.
------------
tattooists think they are “embellishing” or “enhancing” their bodies.
The same might be said for people that diet or do moderate exercise or women that use makeup or men that comb their hair and anyone that uses deodorant.
------------
Both [Christians and people with Tattoos] evade stressing what characterizes or should characterize us as human beings: our mind, the faculty to reason.
And where is your evidence of this psychological trait?
------------
Most often religious and tattoo-carrying people mingle; thus, a survey determining how many religious people tattoo themselves against how many atheists do so would be most interesting… and, perhaps, even utmost revealing, in a way similar to the fact that only 1% of the prison population are atheists, while the vast majority of these cellblock inmates are religious and tattoo-minded.
Manfred, your reasoning in this last is very flawed. You claim that religious and tattoo-minded people mingle but I know of no evidence to support that, and you turn around and in the absence of such evidence wish for a survey that would prove you right. Then you bring up the statistic of atheists in prison and there are a lot of problems with that - such as the fact that portraying one's self as religious is thought to aid in a quicker release. Getting Jesus gets earlier parole. And their is also the self-selection process that leads to becoming an incarcerated criminal which is not done as frequently in intellectual circles... hence a biased population. And then there is the entire survival ethos of tribal existence in today's prison systems where tattoos are part of staying alive.

You really need to check your reasoning because you have a tendency to generalize without verifying to determine that the generalization holds true across the genus.

Post 32

Sunday, February 19, 2012 - 12:46pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Michael,
And yet... it is good Objectivism.
No. It isn't.

Post 33

Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 12:00amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

To Mike (Post 30): No, I never said anywhere nor did I even imply that female bodybuilders are evil. Why should I have done so? There isn’t the slightest evidence for them to be evil.

To Steve (Posts 31 & 32): “People that diet or do moderate exercise, etc.”: The examples you mention do not apply to what I say, for a tattoo is PERMANENT while you refer to things that can be stopped at any time or, in the case of makeup, etc., washed off.

“Where is your evidence of this psychological trait?”: Please read what I wrote correctly. There’s the answer all by itself. The psychological trait involved proves and is the evidence.

“…and you turn around and in the absence of such evidence…”: I don’t “turn around” at all. First of all, it’s well known that prison inmates are – no always, but generally – tattooed. What other motives they may have, apart from their psychological trait that moves them to tattoo themselves for “aesthetical” motives, could be of eventual interest to psychologists and prison wardens, etc. but not to me.  Further on, you won’t find in the whole of my writing any wish of mine to hold a survey that would prove me right (or wrong). I don’t need such a survey. I said that it “would be interesting,” “would” being a conditional, not an imperative. A survey would eventually be interesting, but I neither need it nor do I care if it is ever made or not. As I said, “would” is a conditional, NOT an imperative (From the Webster: Used to express a supposition or conditional).

A generalization doesn’t need to hold true across the genus (Hence, see my reply to Jules on Post 23: “The exception proves the rule”), for if it were, it would not be a generalization but a specification. Here, again, I refer you to Abu l-Ala al-Ma'arri's generalization which specifies two genuses, this being necessary so he can determine about what he will generalize (Religion & Brain). Hence, not the concepts in themselves but Ma’arri’s conclusion about them is the generalization.

“No. It isn’t.”: What I write IS good Objectivism. Prove me IN DETAIL that I’m wrong.





Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 34

Tuesday, February 21, 2012 - 6:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Manfred,

Your logic doesn't hold. Because some chosen 'enhancement' is not permanent doesn't mean it isn't a chosen 'enhancement' and your disallowing those non=permanent items is arbitrary. For example, the application of henna, a skin dye, is not permanent but is otherwise identical to a tattoo, and a tattoo can be removed with medical procedures.

You can continue to believe that your arbitrary, subjective judgments amount to valid applications of Objectivism, but that doesn't make it so.

Post 35

Thursday, February 23, 2012 - 11:57pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit

To Steve (Post 34): More washable/removable decoration examples? I give it up. So much illogical “logic” beats me. Bye, bye…

(Edited by Manfred F. Schieder on 2/23, 11:57pm)


Post 36

Wednesday, November 6, 2013 - 12:03amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
I’ve just received a mail from Mr. Dawson Bethrick stating that, years ago, he came up with his own definition of a “tattoo”: ‘A tattoo is the stupidity of one moment worn as a scar for the rest of one’s life’”. I couldn't resist the temptation of adding it here.

Post 37

Wednesday, November 6, 2013 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Manfred,

I am going to share something with you that is potentially offensive. Other readers, if you have children looking over your shoulder as you are reading this, please ask them to leave the room. Okay, is everybody out? Is it all clear? Let's hope so, because ... here goes:

I was in the men's restroom today at the urinals and the guy beside me had a tattoo on his penis which read: "Lone" so I asked him about it. He said it doesn't just say "Lo...ne" and he assured me that, when he gets excited, more letters become visible and it actually spells "Love Machine", in 72 font. I told him that that's impressive, and then he noted that I had a tattoo on my penis, too (what are the odds of that?!). He noted that my penis tattoo was only in 36 font, and he felt kind of superior to me in that regard. He asked me what "Ingy" stands for and that is when I assured him that, when I get excited, that it actually spells out: "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology."

Nevertheless, he was impressed. Special note: If you alter the page layout in a word processor you can see the length difference between "Love Machine" (in 72 font) and "Intro ..." (in 36 font). That is all that I will have to say on the matter.

:-)

Ed

p.s., I still haven't gotten those 4 words (Reason & Freedom; Faith & Force) tattooed on my pecs yet, but I suspect it may happen to me soon.

:-)

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 11/06, 6:27pm)


Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 38

Thursday, November 7, 2013 - 12:13amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Okay Ed, now, hold the phone. You've gone too far. You've overplayed your hand. You think we're all suckers, don't ya?

I've got to admit. Your story was pretty convincing up until a point.

So you were looking at another man's penis. Okay, okay, that's a bit strange, but maybe it was just an accidental glimpse.

He had a tattoo on his penis. Okay, I've seen stranger things.

And you asked him about the tattoo...I don't know you personally, so I'm going to let this one slide. I know you're very inquisitive and if I didn't suspect I was going to get my teeth kicked in, I'd have asked too...well, maybe not. I'm rather shy.

The man didn't knock your teeth in when you asked...I don't know about you folks in Texas, but if I had done the same, I would have been gutted or at least been given a rather hard/awkward stare depending on where I was. Maybe the folks are just friendlier down there.

We're getting close to the part where you overplayed your hand.

After explaining his tattoo, he then looks at your penis. This is believable given the above context.

He asks you about your tattoo. Also appropriate given the above context.

...you have "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" printed in 32 font on your penis...this too is believable as you're a rather intelligent guy and you likely enjoy Objectivist epistemology and/or the book.

You then mention something along the lines of a penis comparison using a word processor. This all fits with the above as the guy thought he was impressive with the 72 font "Love Machine".

This next part is where you blew it. And I mean BLEW IT. You just ruined your credibility with this fatal error. This is just too unbelievable...

two...

Two...

Two smiley faces! There's no way you're that happy!!!

In the off chance you are THIS happy, no women in your life, eh? You're forty-something; you already know how to navigate those pitfalls. I could learn a thing or two from you.

Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 39

Thursday, November 7, 2013 - 12:19amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ed: I entered "brain & penis & quotes" in Google and got 13.800.000 results, the main one stating Robin William's: "See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis, and only enough blood to run one at a time."

Now, I don't believe in any "god," as I proved plenty of times in these forum pages, but I thoughtfully agree with Robin William's saying. I always thought that we carry the capacity to think in our brain, where Objectivists best brandish the only real philosophy mankind will ever have, but now you taught me that some use ITOE as a sexual symbol and weapon and carry it way down. Well, even at my rather old age, there's always something additional to be learned, though it's not always anything about the human species to be precisely proud of.

I consider that, even if it had been meant as a pun, you should have kept what you wrote to yourself, for what you said to be "wearing" down there is a rather shameful scar to Objectivism that fully confirms Bethrick's quote.

Ill add my own view of the corresponding Smiley as a graphic comment: :' (

Post to this threadBack one pagePage 0Page 1Page 2Forward one pageLast Page


User ID Password or create a free account.