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Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 7:17pmSanction this postReply
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Verily...

Post 1

Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 9:36pmSanction this postReply
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I say thee yea, TSI.

(Tried a few more on YouTube but Louis CK is otherwise not that funny.)


Post 2

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 7:40amSanction this postReply
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This resonated with me.

Due to philosophers, the material progress we have achieved hasn't been balanced with spiritual progress. Most folks are whiny brats (including a vast majority of everyone I personally know or have ever personally known) who have little-to-no familiarity with the idea of gratitude. I wonder if this has been true since the Industrial Revolution. I wonder what was true before that (before the accelerated material progress had been made).

Ed



Post 3

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 8:14amSanction this postReply
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This resonated with me as well. I am appreciative and in awe of so much. It has taken tremendous effort by so many individuals to get to this level of civilization.

Is wow the homonym of meh?
 http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2008/11/17/quot-meh-quot-is-the-new-quot-whatever-quot-will-quot-teh-quot-be-the-new-quot-the-quot.aspx

Have a good Sunday all.




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Post 4

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 12:31pmSanction this postReply
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Ed wrote:
    This resonated with me. [...] I wonder if this has been true since the Industrial Revolution.
Ed:

Unfortunately, my view is that this sort of dissatisfaction with everyday life and lack of appreciation for the wonders wrought by technological advances is a fairly constant syndrome of humankind and has probably always been with us. I also resonated positively to this fellow's comments, but I had to laugh when he started talking about the telephone. I certainly understood the point he was making, but thought it funny when he complained about how, as a kid with rotary phones, he would resent calling someone who had a zero in their number. Where was that perspective that back in the 1960's it was a marvel that you could call almost anyone directly and have a private conversation. No operator intervention. No party line. No Morse Code! :-)

We all have a tendency to view the world from an ego-centric position as if both space and time radiate out from us such that the here-and-now is all that really matters. So any disruption in our current plans and routine are seen as a major disruption. I actually don't see anything too terribly wrong with that in and of itself since we actually do all of our living in the present moment. However, it is also important to temper that view with a broader historical perspective that allows us to see the present in a context of what has come before and what may be coming in the future. Unfortunately, there is a much smaller percentage of the population that has the imaginative faculties coupled with the requisite historical knowledge to be able to perform this task with any skill. This is really too bad because that lack of a broader perspective on life is probably the single most important thing that has been responsible for the general public's support of government intervention into the economy to "fix" all the "problems" we have.

We've been living in a society that had this sort of limitation for centuries and have still been able to make progress at an unprecedented and accelerating pace. What concerns me with the current generation is that this blinded view of progress is now coupled with a broad-based sense of entitlement. Yes, entitlement has been with us for quite some time, but we finally have an entire generation that has been educated to treat it as the expected norm rather than as the exception. It is this new element that may break the back of progress. It is one thing to "complain" about things that bother you in your everyday life, as most of us can ignore those complaints. However, when that general dissatisfaction is coupled with a "demand" that goods and services be provided, this requires the enslavement of others to meet those demands. I think with the coming administration we are seeing a massive surge in support of this entitlement generation and I am deeply concerned that many producers really will start to "strike" as the noose about their necks is tightened. I hope that things do not get too bad, but at the moment I am not too hopeful.

I think the fellow in the video may have it right. It may take some exposure to transporting your goods by mule or walking 5 miles every day to retrieve a bucket of drinking water to get some people to be able to truly appreciate what they once had.

Regards,
--
Jeff


(Edited by C. Jeffery Small on 11/23, 12:36pm)


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Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 1:59pmSanction this postReply
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I think the fellow in the video may have it right. It may take some exposure to transporting your goods by mule or walking 5 miles every day to retrieve a bucket of drinking water to get some people to be able to truly appreciate what they once had.
....................


Was one of the reasons for learning and teaching survival many years ago - that being self- dependent out in the wilds made a much better appreciation of civilization, as well as the value of self...

Post 6

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 2:25pmSanction this postReply
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I guess I have to say that I disagree with the premise of the video.

The reason that humans started using jugs to retrieve water and mules (instead of their backs) to retrieve and transport goods was because of dissatisfaction.

The reason we ditched the rotary phone was because of dissatisfaction. Because there could be something better.



Post 7

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 3:54pmSanction this postReply
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Steve D.,

I was waiting for that point to be brought up. You couched your opening statements in negative terms, but your final one in positive terms. Progress, itself, can be viewed in those two ways, too. When the internally-combusted auto-mobile competed with the horse and buggy, you could say that the car was better or that the horse was worse -- but you still get to the same place (excuse the double entendre`).

Folks selling cars could highlight the dissatisfaction of sore inner thighs from horse-riding or, alternatively, they could highlight the novelty of being propelled by a machine -- though the ride was equally bumpy at first (before advances in car suspension). In the second case, it wasn't so much that horses weren't meeting our needs (they probably did that better at first), its just that cars were new, and new is fun.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 11/23, 3:55pm)


Post 8

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 4:48pmSanction this postReply
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Steven D. has a point, but I still like the video - a lot!

I was flying over a particularly rugged and ugly section of country - high desert and bad lands - and eating the dinner the flight attendant had brought. I was thinking of how not that far back in history people had to eat dust all day long, walking beside a ox pulled cart, doing only 10 miles and drinking small amounts of precious water - despite the scum in the barrels. Trying to stay warm when the temperature dropped below freezing, and going on even when it rose over 100. No toilet paper, no showers, no fresh clothes.... a tough existence. Just as I was thinking that the person sitting next to me said, "You can never get a good meal on an airline."

There is dissatisfaction, and then there is whining. There are those who see a better way to do something and are filled with excitement at what could be, and then there are those who will never rise higher than their complaints. I have always loved technology and my affection for cool things quickly takes me to imagining ways to take them to the next level - not dissatisfaction.


Post 9

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 5:25pmSanction this postReply
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there's another reason with the car, Ed - ye don't have to shovel shit... ;-)

Post 10

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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I just turned 59 on November 10.  My parents were the youngest of five and seven, born in 1929 and 1931.  I don't know my dad's side of the family, but my one grandmother was born in 1896 and my grandfather in 1884.  (They were married at 30 and 18, odd, perhaps, now, but historically supported.)  My grandmother raised two generations in the same house: her own children, of course, but when my uncles went to World War II, their children, and then, last, my brother and me.  So, for me, the time before airplanes and radios and televisions was very real.  I remember when we got more digits in the phone number, seven, really, not four.  (It was the local exchange system: Ontario... Shadyside... Cherry..., which were neighborhood switches, right?  You can still see the buildings around town, if you know what to look for.)

But my grandparents were very modern -- or at least my grandmother was.  I would come home from school and find my science books out.  She told me about meteors she saw and fossils that came up from the coal mines they lived at before coming to Cleveland.  She was a passenger in airplanes and then in jets. 

So, I take nothing for granted.

I find it all thrilling.  Everytime I fly commercial, I think about the fact that I am cruising at 80% the speed of sound, one-third of the way to outer space.

Back in 1999/2000, I wrote a series of Millennial Wonder Stories in the Gernsback style.  I submitted one for a contest. 


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Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 7:16pmSanction this postReply
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Steve W.,

I was thinking of how not that far back in history people had to eat dust all day long, walking beside a ox pulled cart, doing only 10 miles and drinking small amounts of precious water - despite the scum in the barrels. Trying to stay warm when the temperature dropped below freezing, and going on even when it rose over 100. No toilet paper, no showers, no fresh clothes.... a tough existence. Just as I was thinking that the person sitting next to me said, "You can never get a good meal on an airline."
What a great way to put it, Steve. And just think, for a moment, that there were Neanderthals who would all-but-die for an ox to help them pull a cart, or a barrel in which they might store or carry water! They would view the lifestyle of their ancestors, in the Dark Ages even, as so leisurely and advanced beyond that which they had when they had roamed the cold north wrapped in animal hide and searching for a new cave or the next water hole. The idea of living as a pauper in a castle -- where you didn't have to wake up each day wondering if you were going to survive for the next 12-24 hours -- would "spoil" them.

Ed


Post 12

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 9:01pmSanction this postReply
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I frequently think of how my mother and father would be amazed with our technology and how I could impress them by explaining it to them.

Here in the high desert (7,000 ft.) you can see forever and whenever I go north and climb up to the overlook to the Taos llano you see the great Rio Grande gorge but when at ground level you can't see the gorge until you're almost on top of it. It must have been disheartening in the extreme for the early pioneers with their covered wagons to come upon this monstrous, unforeseen barrier to their progression westward. Hardships we can't even imagine.

Photo: Rio Grande Gorge Bridge
You can see the bridge in the center of the picture. It's a site of many suicides.

Sam


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Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 9:10pmSanction this postReply
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Oddly, that is the first time I've ever seen the Canyon as a gorge in the flat land... ty.......

Post 14

Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 11:50pmSanction this postReply
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That's a great picture, Sam, thanks. It's a view I've never seen before. There is a lot of beautiful country in New Mexico.

Post 15

Monday, November 24, 2008 - 5:52amSanction this postReply
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Sam,

Incredible photo, and your thoughts about settlers suddenly encountering this tremendous obstacle underscores the dramatic nature of the progress we've experienced within just the last three hundred years.

As for the multitudes of people frustrated or dissatisfied with the technology they hold in their hands, I would cut (many of) them some slack. The fact is that standards do change, and people have a legitimate right to complain when a technology, even a newer technology - but that has been proven effective in the market - uncharacteristically fails in their hands (presuming first they knew how to operate it properly). Such dissatisfaction should be tempered though by the recognition of the level of of technology it represents, and the added level of convenience (above past methods) that it represents - i.e. have a little bit of humility when criticizing a product they probably could not have conceived of or built themselves.

jt
(Edited by Jay Abbott on 11/24, 7:23am)


Post 16

Monday, November 24, 2008 - 8:09amSanction this postReply
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Robert:

I hope you're not confusing the Rio Grande Gorge with the Colorado Grand Canyon.

Sam


Post 17

Monday, November 24, 2008 - 10:47amSanction this postReply
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Unfortunately yes, I was... :-(

Post 18

Monday, November 24, 2008 - 10:49amSanction this postReply
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So what did they do about it?

Post 19

Monday, November 24, 2008 - 11:19amSanction this postReply
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Sam wrote:
    "It must have been disheartening in the extreme for the early pioneers with their covered wagons to come upon this monstrous, unforeseen barrier to their progression westward."



The same thing must have been true of The Barlands - although they might have been easier to circumnavigate than the Rio Grande gorge! I too appreciate your picture Sam. I have seen the Rio Grande in Albuquerque and outside Los Alamos in Bandelier National Monument, but had no idea that it cut a gorge like this through the plains.

Regards,
--
Jeff


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