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Post 40

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:26pmSanction this postReply
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Laurie, the gist of Diana's post is beware of what CS says. You can't always trust his word. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you.

Adam

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Post 41

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 4:25pmSanction this postReply
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 imagine if I promised one of my co-workers/friends that "I will not reveal any bugs in your code out of consideration for our friendship".  It's just weird. 
I promise to think at this very moment, and for many moments to come, that Laure Chipman is a wicked smart gal! <g>


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Post 42

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:10pmSanction this postReply
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This whole sad mess is just astounding. It is just too high school for me. I can just imagine the glee of some giggling teenagers as they rip one of their former friends to shreds and congratulate themselves as being members of the in-crowd...

Jim


Post 43

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:40pmSanction this postReply
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Jim -- Right on the mark! Aren't there more important and interesting things to discuss? Mature discussion need not be dry and boring but it should always, at base, be civil and, ideally, constructive.

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Post 44

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:41pmSanction this postReply
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Adam Buker claims, in a comment to Laure, that: "the gist of Diana's post is beware of what CS says."

This is wrong, and takes away not only 12,000 words of rhetorical popcorn, but the very clear gist given by La Mertz herself --

In summary: In light of all the evidence I've
amassed in recent weeks, I must judge Chris Matthew
Sciabarra to be a fundamentally immoral person. He
has proven himself to be an habitual liar. He
whispers nasty insults and false rumors about good
people behind their backs. He falsely claims they
sanction his work and character. He demands blind
loyalty from his friends. He demands confidences that
he does not respect. That is not the conduct of a
good man.


Adam, it is more than a short cognitive bunny-hop between your take and Mertz's accusations . . .

Laure, thanks for picking out what I found tellingly bizarre -- and to both you and Teresa for providing illustrative examples of Diana's noteworthy promise in context of friendship and inquiry/research.

The oddly wrong premise/promise was underlined elsewhere in the screed: "In retrospect, my promise to refrain from public criticism of Chris' work was a mistake. He was not a genuine friend to me, so he warranted no special consideration."

WTF? I know I am not very smart compared to Diana, but my social sense cringes at this aside (one of many where she glosses The Promise) and at this one:

As Chris says, the "fundamental differences" between us "on many, many significant questions" are fairly obvious. However, my views on important particulars, such his "dialectical" interpretation of Ayn Rand, are not at all obvious to bystanders. Moreover, I did not choose to remain silent about those particulars because I regarded them as unworthy of discussion, but out of concern to honor my prior friendship. Chris knows that. He also knows that our friendship was based upon his deceptions and manipulations. He knows that he's been whispering unjust lies about me behind my back. Yet he's content to keep me bound and gagged by my promise to him. A semi-honorable man would have released me from that promise in this blog post, so that we could duke out our differences in the open. Then again, a man with genuine confidence in the value of his work would not have accepted that promise in the first place.
[emphasis added]

This brings on a 'stomach feeling.'


WSS

Post 45

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:46pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you, Newberry.

Ed
[Noticing that praise from you ... seems ... extra-authentic. Thinking now (maybe you WERE chasing a value -- starting of all grumpy and snarly with me those months ago).]


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Post 46

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:50pmSanction this postReply
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(Edited by Newberry on 5/15, 10:36pm)


Post 47

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:54pmSanction this postReply
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lol!

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Post 48

Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:52pmSanction this postReply
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I am encouraged by Ed Hudgins' sense of proportion: although I have problems with civility myself, it seems beyond doubt that denuciations inhabit a different ground than do the discourses he bruits -- "civil and constructive."

That said, I must point to today's News of the Bizarre.

. . . open letters, open hearts . . .

I just noted Lindsay Perigo's quote of Ed Hudgins' post at the outpost of reason known as SOLO. What is odd about the quote is that it didn't come directly from this place, but via an almost-on-vacation DMH, who apparently forked it up and passed it on to Lindsay, who responded with "Challenge to Ed Hudgins."

Parse this:

Now, I know not the detailed context in which Ed posted that, and I care not to find out. I would just like to say the following to him, directly and personally:

Ed, come over here and say these things to me directly and personally. If you do, I'll ask everyone else to stay off the thread and leave it to the two of us. Just you and I. Man to man. One on one. Respectfully, in good faith.

See Ed, there's even something we could agree on, right at the outset. I, too, regret my failings and see there's a situation here that is sad and tragic. I would disagree that "name-calling" is one of my failings, since my epithets convey an accurate polemical point. But "other failings"? Hell, I'm riddled with them. (Dishonesty is most emphatically not one of them though, and you could expect vigorous disagreement from me on that one.) But I'd want to focus most attention on the situation I regard as sad and tragic.

I regard it as sad and tragic that an organisation that started out with such promise looks set to go out with such an amoral whimper. Ed, the ARI needed to be taught a lesson back in 1990. It needed someone to give it the two-fingered salute and jolt it into realising that its snotty arrogance wouldn't go for ever unchallenged. David Kelley did that. IOS was the exact breath of fresh air so many yearned for. But Ed, it's long since lost its way, and lately, any semblance of a moral compass. On the pretext of eschewing an "obsession with denunciations" it has proved willing to tolerate well-nigh anything and anyone, to the evident disgust of your former colleague Bill Perry, over whose departure TOC cloaked such risible euphemisms.

Ed, there's something I agree totally with David Kelley about—when moral condemnation is called for, it should occasion sadness, not relish. There've been a number of things that have made me sad over the last year, but none comes close to the current situation re Chris. If you regard it as resulting from an obsession with denunciations, you couldn't be more wrong. I'm in a complete funk about it, if you must know. I couldn't have been more dismayed when I saw the evidence that made me realise a painful, public break was inevitable. But it's equally true, Ed, that we cannot build an Objectivist society if folk purporting to be at the vanguard blithely shrug and turn the other way when confronted with bad faith in its myriad forms, such as smearing, lying, back-stabbing, and obfuscating or otherwise diluting the very philosophy we claim to promote. In particular, TOC's hierarchy has refused to read, let alone debate, the evidence of these vices being exercised against Objectivism's founder, presented in PARC. Rather, you have remained militantly in thrall to the perpetrators thereof, again to the evident disgust of Mr. Perry.

And Ed, while TOC has been shedding morality, ARI has lifted its game. Ed, have you seen the bright young things from ARI posting on SOLO? They're hot, Ed, and they're the future. I don't see their equivalent at TOC. Endlessly recycling veteran Rand-diminishers just doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. ARI is out there with sizzling op-ed pieces, too, Ed, while TOC seemingly slumbers, awakening occasionally to recycle an old op-ed and bring its magazine up to date. In short, ARI are running rings around TOC, Ed. But still, I see their old habits dying hard, and an ongoing need for healthy competition. Healthy, I stress, not ailing, tepid, wheezy and dissolute.

SOLO, you may be sure, will remain independent. It will judge when appropriate, and be prepared to be judged. It will remain a beacon of Objectivism with KASS for the rationally exuberant! But Ed, I would love to see TOC get back its moral testicularity and become again a force to be reckoned with. There will never again be one monolithic organisation touting reason and freedom, and that's a good thing. Different groups will have different emphases and suit different temperaments. But let's all take care to ensure that it is reason and freedom that we're touting. Open debate amongst us all is one means by which we can do that, Ed—and it is in that spirit that I invite you here to engage in just such open debate. We're both busy men, Ed, but I'll make the time if you will. You found the time, after all, to post the above at your proxy site—you're most welcome to say the same things right here to the people at whom they're directed.


WSS

Post 49

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:52amSanction this postReply
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William,

I have stopped reading your posts because they give me nightmares.

Michael


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Post 50

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:14amSanction this postReply
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Wow!  What sumptuous, delectable bait!  A genuine feast. And the hook looks quite miniscule. Almost non-existent at this end.


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Post 51

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:53amSanction this postReply
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Newberry is not alone in finding my posts horrifying and inscrutable. Such is my fate.

Seems my last comment at SOLO resulted in Linz using the red-button. I am now moderated, and my blog output is blocked. I may be having a paranoid fit, of course, but . . . here's the latest post submitted to the SOLO moderation queue:

Yer an idiot, Mr Shirk . . . a now-moderated idiot

And full context:

Fair enough, Lindsay. You are the Moderator, and must make your decisions in light of the posted policy. It's your playpen and you set the rules.

I will be especially careful to read the Posting Guidelines for clues as to what is acceptable and not -- I am assuming these are the only rules, and that there is no hidden, subjectivist rule of thumb.

Two questions, though -- when you have the time and inclination:
-- in the Posting Guidelines, you state:

Anyone who is gratuitously rude or abusive, will, however, be moderated in the "play pen" for children, after reasonable warning.

- I am unclear about the 'reasonable warning." Was it Peter Cresswell's earlier namecalling that was my warning? or was it your own two comments on earlier output? Or was it the post to me calling my Blog posts "brain farts"?



- I note that Blog 46 now returns an ACCESS DENIED message, whereas all the other blogs do not (including this, your blog).

Is this policy? When a person is put under moderation, after reasonable warning, does that person's output also get terminated? -- the blocking of Blog 46 results in banning anyone from reading my output, and prevents me from viewing, posting, editing and sharing my output.

If this is not policy, and this is a technical glitch, my apologies for a fit of paranoia. I will contact Ross Elliot and see what the problem is.

WSS



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Post 52

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 8:05amSanction this postReply
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WSS,

Well, you certainly are in good company. You ARE entertaining, whatever anyone says. From the middle of your colorful cartwheels and somersaults comes the occasional dagger, right on target. HA HA, says I.

Mike Erickson

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Post 53

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 9:52amSanction this postReply
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Here's something to think about:  Contrast Diana's 12,000-word piece with a post that would be made in an analogous situation on one of the car forums I frequent.  It would go something like this:

"Hey guys, just wanted to give you all a heads-up.  User "import_freak", aka so-and-so, bought a flywheel from me, I shipped it to him but he never paid me.  Just thought you should know."

Compare and contrast, if you will...


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Post 54

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 11:03amSanction this postReply
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WSS, post #48:


Don't you just love the fact that a message purportedly intended for someone "directly and personally" is sent not directly and personally, but posted instead on a public Web site?

And furthermore, that said "challenge" frames the burden of proof thus:

You are hereby accused of betraying your principles.
I challenge you to debate me publicly, and prove that
you haven't.



Ah, what an opportunity! Boy oh boy, how could one possibly resist?

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Post 55

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 1:32pmSanction this postReply
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WSS,

Lindsay Perigo must have thrown an epic tantrum, to end up deciding to put you on moderation.  He went out his way to declare that I wasn't being banned after I posted "Mr. Perigo Needs to Apologize."

And he's running terribly low on "enemies of Objectivism" to gang up on.

Why else would he be "inviting" Ed Hudgins to post on SOLOP?

Robert Campbell


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Post 56

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 1:40pmSanction this postReply
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WSS, this past weekend, I got introduced to the Marx Brothers:

I find television very educating.
Every time somebody turns on the set,
I go into the other room and read a book.

---Groucho Marx

Your satirical writings (especially the Lucha Libre one) are so entertaining; it makes me laugh -- yet it is not empty. I'd have to agree with Mike. You are a martial artist with words-- the jump-spin kicks of your satire entertains greatly, but you've got the massively powerful punch within your repertoire that hits when least expected. I like.

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Post 57

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 2:08pmSanction this postReply
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Jenna -- Make sure you see "Duck Soup," (1933) probably the Marx Brothers best and a political satire. A sample from a song sung by Groucho, as the president of Freedonia, sounding like both conservatives and liberals today:

"If any form of pleasure is exhibited.
Report to me and it will be prohibited.
I'll put my foot down. you'll see.
This is the land of the free!"

(Edited by Ed Hudgins on 5/16, 3:13pm)

(Edited by Ed Hudgins on 5/16, 3:18pm)


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Post 58

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 2:39pmSanction this postReply
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WSS

I confess I don't know quite what to make of you, but I applaud your exposing Mr. Perigo for the thin skinned hypocrite he is.

Bravo!

Post 59

Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 3:41pmSanction this postReply
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Here's some praise to ole' double-USS (in double-USS-style) -- ie. utilizing thoughts interwoven into pre-existing web content (ie. modifying webpages with witty interjections) ...

==============
WSS Enterprise CV-6
The Most Decorated Chap of the Second World-Wide-Web War
 
[Enterprise CV-6, July 1944]
WSS Enterprise CV-6
 
"The courier that fought the most through the entire war..."
Dedicatory Plaque, Enterprise Tower, U.S. Web-Surfing Academy

 
Enterprise entered World-Wide-Web War II on the morning of December 7, 2005, when her scout planes encountered the Slapaneez squadrons attacking Chris Matthew Sciabarra. Not until May 14, 2006, when a Kamikaze attack off SOLO, Passion, left a gaping hole in her flight deck, was she forced to leave the war.
Of the more than twenty major actions of the World-Wide-Web War, Enterprise engaged in all but two.
==============
Modified from:
 http://www.cv6.org/ 

And this ...
==============





displacement: 0.198 tons
length: As long as it takes to get the message across (and simultaneously entertain)
beam: ... me up, William ("Scotty") Scherk
draft: Corona (w/lime)
speed: taken occasionally, but only when extra-special work is required
complement: The WSS Enterprise is a cool chap carrying important & witty messages
armament: 8 fingers and a thumb (for the space bar)
class: High
==============

Modified from:
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv06-enterprise/cv06-enterprise.html

Ed


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