RoR: Forum

Jon:

I think you've cracked the code! Good eye! :-)

I remember in fourth grade reading Lord of the Flies and then discussing it in class. The interpretation of symbology was being piled on so deep that I could no longer wade through it. I remember commenting to the teacher that I was pretty sure that Golding could not possibly have intended all of this when he was writing the story and that much of what was being attributed to the author was probably the by-product of hundred's of imaginative graduate students working on their theses, along with the musings of literary critics.

Now, if the olives do indeed turn out to be grapes, will this sour you on your supposition? :-)

Regards,
--
Jeff

Post 61

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 3:40pm

No, even in a still life, you can detect motion from the movement lines, as with this photo of a baby's rattle shaking. Were the pickled grape (that's what an olive is...) rolling you would see such lines. Unless it is a surreal painting.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 1/08, 3:42pm)

Post 62

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 3:46pm

Glenn,

I KNOW it is a still life!

But if you were right, there would be �swoosh� lines, which there are not.

Ergo, the olive is not rolling.

BTW, did you know that the official Scrabble dictionary allows �Pffft�? It is defined roughly as the sound that Wylie Coyote makes when he hits the canyon wall. I�m dead serious.

(Do people really pickle grapes? In any case, I thought an olive was botanically something different from any grape.)

Edit:
Ah, Ted, I see now that you beat me to the absence of swoosh lines which totally demolishes Glenn�s thesis.

(Edited by Jon Letendre on 1/08, 3:51pm)

Post 63

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 3:53pm

"I thought an olive was botanically something different from any grape."

Yep, we've move in to surealism now! :-)

Post 64

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 4:08pm

No, this is called "consensus."

Post 65

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 4:30pm

Well!

Are you going to give us the etymological lecture, or not?

Post 66

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 5:00pm

Etymology

The noun "lecture" dates from 14th century, meaning "action of reading, that which is read," from the Latin lectus, pp. of legere "to read." Its subsequent meaning as "a discourse on a given subject before an audience for purposes of instruction" is from the 16th century. The verb "to lecture" is attested from 1590. The noun "lectern" refers to the reading desk used by lecturers. In British English and several other languages the noun "lecture" must grammatically be the object of the verb "to read."

Cezanne

Kalf

Paul S. Brown

(Edited by Ted Keer on 1/08, 5:01pm)

Post 67

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 6:26pm

The Kalf looks cluttered, overly formal, poorly composed (the bottom two fifths of the painting is a waste.)

The Kalf painting is beautiful. White table draping is strategic, drawing the eye up to the table.

I like "cluttered" like this. It looks like "lots and lots." There's so much, some can be wasted. I like that.

Cezanne's fruit looks like poison.

Paul makes me want to bake a pie. Juicy and sweet.

Post 68

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 6:53pm

How do you know they are olives? And what's this about olives are pickled grapes??? In either case, don't those colors look awfully bleached out?

Post 69

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 7:20pm

Mindy,

Ted is right. They are olives. Open your eyes! I mean, really now, are you also having trouble seeing that the glass of cognac is XO and not VSOP?

As for olives as pickled grapes, I think Ted may have lost his marbles.

I am with you (I think it was you) that a message of 'there is such a thing as too much' is present. There are two tables, but still it all barely fits. The plate is about to fall. There is a fallen glass in the back on the right.

(What is the object to the left of the gold vessel? It looks like one of the glasses, but upside-down with the base somehow facing us?)

It is all kind of a mess. Doesn�t it look like everything has been shoved to the left? A bowl is tilting left and the platter looks like it got shoved left and bunched up the cloth, as though the cloth had been nicely covering the table on the right. I think dinner is over and some people are on the table over on the right, out of the painting, doing special adult things.

Post 70

Thursday, January 8, 2009 - 7:26pm

The problem with judging the colors of old paintings is that they fade. The Kalf could be much less vivid than it was. But the reds certainly weren't blues.

I still think the bottom part of the Kalf painting is a waste. I like the sheen of the metal pitcher. With more vivid colors it could be more appealing. But the Vermeer shows a much better sense of composition than does the Kalf.

As for how to pickle grapes to make olives, (from the greek, ouvoula) see wikipedia. I am surprised people are so poorly informed on this.

Post 71

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 8:32am

Jon and Ted,
Thanks for the lesson on "swoosh" lines. Here's an example where they're explicit: Duchamp's "Nude Descending Stairs".

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Post 72

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 8:34am

All this time I thought olives come from olive trees! My parents have lied to me all these years!!! Next thing you know my dad will come clean to me that you can't make wine out of grapes. Damn Greeks!

Post 73

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 9:15am

So, Stephen asked for a comparison of the metaphysical value-judgments of these three still lives. This is hard. For the Cezanne, I'll say: the world is a tricky place to live in. For the Kalf: personal pleasures are marginal in a world that demands formality (?) And for the Brown: expect to be disappointed.

(Edited by Mindy Newton on 1/09, 9:16am)

Post 74

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 9:21am

That is much as I see it...

and as for adding a poorly done decorative display with pretensions of being a painting, nothing more there needs be said...
(Edited by robert malcom on 1/09, 9:24am)

Post 75

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 9:53am

Robert,

Are you complaining about the Duchamp Glenn posted?

Just wanted you to know he posted it in ridiculing humor.

We were having some fun. I�ll leave the thread alone now.

Post 76

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 12:37pm

This is one thing I've notice here, the seeming necessity of injecting such into a serious discussion - this is not the comedy hour, and if the discussion seems more serious than one cares for, then why bother interjecting into it... if there is disagreement with some of the interpretations, explain why, and what and why an alternative might be more viable...

As for the 'Nude', many do consider it a 'work of art', so pointing out such is not truly the case is a valid answering - and if detailing of the answering is needed, then asking would bring it forth...

the same with the idiocy of 'olives from grapes'...
(Edited by robert malcom on 1/09, 12:38pm)

Post 77

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 12:56pm

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 1:41pm

Before we get really serious, could I just ask how you prepare the pimento when you pickle the grapes?

Post 79

Friday, January 9, 2009 - 2:56pm