| | I wrote (to GWL): "Define your terms. What is time? It is a measurement of motion. Motion presupposes bodies that move. If nothing existed, there would be no time. Since time depends on things that already exist, time is a property of the universe, and exists within the universe. The universe does not exist within time." He replied, To say that time is a property of the universe, while denying that the universe exists within time, is to make a distinction where there is no difference, if the universe began to exist. If the universe began to exist (and began to exist in motion), then the universe itself, which amounts to just those things of which it is composed, possesses time as an essential property of itself. And this is just to say that the universe exists within time; since there is no way it could possibly exist without it. If you say the universe exists within time, you're implying that it exists for a certain period of time -- for a certain duration --which in turn implies that its duration can be measured by a standard outside itself, which is impossible since there is nothing outside the universe.
I wrote, "Is it your view that the idea of relative motion is a common misconception? Unless it is, I don't see how you can say that the entire universe is expanding. For the question then arises: what is it expanding in relation to?" It is expanding in relation to itself. It began as it progessed from a dimensionless point, or singularity, to a state of expansion relative to this point. You can't say that it's expanding in relation to itself. One part may move or expand in relation to another, but the whole cannot do so in relation to itself.
GWL wrote: "I just don't see how this can be. If the 'universe', for example, began as just one uninflated balloon, and then began to expand (as if it were being blown up) an observer on the surface would notice a steadily decreasing curvature contiguous with the expansion, and therefrom would be able to deduce the expansion of his 'universe' itself." I replied, "But in that case, the balloon on which you are situated would be expanding relative to you, the observer. For suppose that you were expanding at the same rate as the balloon. In that case, you would notice no difference in the balloon’s curvature. Remember, the universe is the totality of existence, not just part of it, in which case, you as an observer must be included." There is no reason to suppose that all constituents within the universe expand at a rate proportional to the rate of the universe's expansion. Again, you're assuming that the universe as a whole can be said to expand; it cannot, for the reasons I already stated. Things within the universe can expand relative to other things, but the universe as a whole -- as the sum total of existence -- cannot, because it would have to expand relative to a standard outside itself, which is impossible, since nothing exists outside the universe. It only needs to be the case that at least a single constituent does, viz. the dimensional substratum. What's a "dimensional substratum"?
GWL wrote: "By all means, use the nomenclature you see fit. I would just point out that theists make a distinction between the universe and God in order to highlight what they believe to be the ontological dissimilarity of the two: God is uncreated, the universe is created."
I replied, "But it’s an arbitrary distinction. Why include within the universe everything in existence except for one other thing, especially when the term 'universe' refers to what is universal, i.e., to everything?" Universals refer to properties which can be predicated universally of the substances which possess them. "Redness" is thus a universal applying to all those things which are red. It is not a universal in the sense that everything is red. Of course! But if I'm talking about the universe of existents, I mean everything in existence.
I wrote, "Furthermore, if God can be uncreated, why can’t the universe be uncreated? If God can be considered a 'necessary' being, then why can’t the universe be considered a necessary being? On the other hand, if the universe requires a creator, why doesn’t God require one?" The universe is contingent, i.e. what it is does not entail that it exist. What it is certainly does entail that it exist, because "what it is" is something that exists. This is the case insofar as all of the entitites that compose the universe are contingent. My T-mobile cell-phone, for instance, is a contingent entity, since its concept does not entail that it exist. I can prove this by imagining its concept while smashing it to pieces with a hammer. As I understand the term "contingent," it means dependent on something else for its existence -- and generally, on something else that could have been otherwise, like human choice -- but the ultimate constituents of the universe are not dependent on anything else, much less on human choice. They are irreducible, indestructible primaries. A necessary being must be a being for whom it is impossible that it not exist . . . Okay, then the fundamental constituents of existence are "necessary beings," for it is impossible for them not to exist. . . . hence it must be a being whose conceptual possibility entails its necessary existence. It doesn't follow that a necessary being is one whose conceptual possibility entails its necessary existence. From the fact that something is conceptually possible it doesn't follow that it exists, let alone exists necessarily. But: (1) Necessary existence is a positive property. (2) God, as a maximally perfect being, possesses all and only positive properties. ________________________________________________________ (3) God exists (necessarily). Suppose that a maximally perfect being didn't exist. In other words, suppose that every being lacked some positive property. Then obviously such a being wouldn't exist, in which case, he wouldn't exist necessarily. So, according to this argument, his existence is necessary only if he first exists. But that he exists is the very thing the argument is designed to prove. Therefore, it cannot be argued that God exists because his existence is necessary, if his existence is necessary only if he first exists. In short, this "ontological argument" is question begging and circular. The universe does not exist necessarily, because the universe possesses negative properties (e.g. privation). Hence, the universe must require something to actualize, or create, it: God. Your criterion for necessary existence is incorrect. The fundamental constituents of the universe do exist necessarily, because it isn't possible for them not to exist. Privation has nothing to do with it.
Bill
(I revised my response to the ontological argument.)
(Edited by William Dwyer on 3/28, 1:11am)
(Edited by William Dwyer on 3/28, 8:46am)
(Edited by William Dwyer on 3/28, 6:42pm)
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