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Post 20

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 9:41amSanction this postReply
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Bob Campbell wrote:
The question I have for Chris C is what "advancing Objectivism" truly consists of.  So far as I can determine, the only response to Ayn Rand's ideas that will qualify as "advancing Objectivism," by the Ayn Rand Institute's standards, is wider and wider-spread conformity to the interpretations of Rand put forward by the leaders of ARI.  By that standard, only ARI could be "advancing Objectivism" (although we may still ask how widespread the conformity to its official views actually is).  But why should anyone consider the accomplishment of ARI's mission a good thing?
Since Objectivism officially (by Rand's definition) consists of what was published and/or approved of by Rand before her death in 1982, there are many things that might "advance" Objectivism that are not actually Objectivism themselves. These include: (1) things written or said by Rand but not edited/prepared for publication before her death (including her letters, journals, comments in Q-A sessions, her interviews, and even the material in the huge appendix to Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology), and  (2) all of the vast amounts of post-1982 "chewing" of her ideas done by ARI, TOC, and independent Objectivists and sympathizers (including Tara Smith's new book, Harry Binswanger's and Dave Harriman's forthcoming books, and of course Leonard Peikoff's book on Objectivism). Now, the things Rand published and/or approved of before 1982 (i.e., official Objectivism) might be advanced by some or all of these other things, but it's more likely that they will simply advance the fortunes of those who are in a position to cash in on using Rand's name and her not-intended-for-publication writings.
I agree with Joe R that authors' achievements are primarily their own, not those of some organization.  Still, we can draw a useful distinction between work that was actually sponsored or financially supported by an organization (e.g., Hicks' book or Long and Badhwar's monographs by TOC, Smith and Mayhew's books by ARI) and work that is in favor with many members of some organization but was not supported or sponsored by it.  No Randian organization funded or sponsored any of the work of Eric Mack, the Dougs, Chris Sciabarra, Tibor Machan, Ed Younkins, et al.
There are more ways to support a person's work than by outright sponsorship or financial support. For instance, TOC sponsored a seminar on Chris Sciabarra's Russian Radical, solmething that ARI would never dream of doing (and indeed was linked to several negative reviews of his book). By this standard, I would say that TOC was substantially more supportive of Chris's work. Similarly, the Dougs, Eric Mack, and Tibor Machan have all been invited (multiple times?) to speak at TOC seminars, but ARI has not once rolled out the welcome mat for any of them. The writings and publications of these authors are not TOC accomplishments, but their willingness to speak at TOC certainly suggests that they are disposed to think kindly of TOC, if not fully endorsing it, and this in itself indicates a loose linkage and supportiveness, if not outright affiliation and sponsorship.
...isn't it time to move beyond the item on the curriculum vitae (that Smith's new book was published by Cambridge) to reading and reviewing its contents?  I've read the book now; so have some other participants here; still others will be getting to it sooner or later.  
I'm all for it. Want to set up a chapter-by-chapter, Bob? Book reviews are bound to show up, and that's fine. But I like group study and discussion, too. Keep me posted on this!

...a non-Randian academic, getting his or her first exposure to the Objectivist ethics through Smith's book, will almost surely come away from it convinced that Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand is "part of Objectivism," rather than "Objectivist philosophy." (And I very much doubt that anyone at ARI will find that outcome upsetting.)  For, as I previously noted, Peikoff's book is footnoted an average of once per page.
A non-Randian scholar who peruses Peikoff's OPAR will quickly see that Peikoff, hamstrung like all the other Objectivist philosophers, is duty-bound to refer to his post-1982 writing as falling outside of "official Objectivism."
Because of my thirty years of study under her, and by her own statement, I am the person next to Ayn Rand who is the most qualified to write this book. Since she did not live to see it, however, she is not responsible for any misstatements of her views it may contain, nor can the book be properly described as "official Objectivist doctrine." "Objectivism" is the name of Ayn Rand's philosophy as presented in the material she herself wrote or endorsed.
We can only speculate about what OPAR would have been like, had Peikoff set aside "Ominous Parallels" and written OPAR while Rand was still alive and could guide and endorse it (as she did "Ominous Parallels"). But it still remains that, as Rand wrote in 1976 about Peikoff's lecture course on "The Philosophy of Objectivism":
Until or unless I write a comprehensive treatise on my philosophy, Dr. Peikoff's course is the only authorized presentation of the entire theoretical structure of Objectivism, i.e., the only one that I know of my own knowledge to be fully accurate.
Peikoff's main changes in his revision of the lectures was to make some of the arguments more precise and the examples more vivid. But he also substantially changed the logical order of the presentation, and he included new integrations as well. We can only presume that Rand would have approved of most of them. But since I think there are obvious flaws in the book which were also in the lectures (which Rand approved), I'm not sure that it would have made all that much difference had she been able to take part in "birthing" OPAR.
 
Anyway, no, OPAR is not "official Objectivism." It is "the definitive statement of Ayn Rand's philosophy--as interpreted by her best student and chosen heir."
 
And that is about as good as it gets. For anyone else at ARI, it must be truly emasculating, to be recognized as an Objectivist philosopher, but for one's work to fall into the no-man's-land of not being Objectivist philosophy -- but instead merely philosophy written by an Objectivist philosopher and inspired by or derived from Objectivism. How peculiar, and how sad. But that is the logical implication of Objectivism as a "Closed System."
 
Perhaps, though, we should be glad that this is the official stance of ARI. Suppose they rejected Rand's "Closed System" doctrine and took it upon themselves -- being the "big dog in the fight" -- to rule on what comprised "official Objectivism" (and what did not) of post-1982 writings. A no-longer emasculated ARI, monopolizing the certification of what new writings qualified as Objectivist? No, thank you!
 
REB


Post 21

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 12:36pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Bidinotto, I disagree with you likewise.
You sound just like the people I was talking about!



(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 6/07, 1:08pm)


Post 22

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 1:13pmSanction this postReply
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Ciro, I do not believe that your argument is with me; it is with Ayn Rand.


Post 23

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 1:27pmSanction this postReply
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Ciro, I do not believe that your argument is with me; it is with Ayn Rand.
 
Yes, but isn't she your aunt?
Just kidding!

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 6/07, 2:17pm)


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Post 24

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 2:55pmSanction this postReply
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Ciro -- If you assume that Objectivism is generally a philosophy in the Enlightenment tradition, then it is quite compatible with the principles on which America was founded, principles that were accepted implicitly if not explicitly by most Americans until the welfare state began to undermine them.

Whether the masses will ever consider themselves card-carrying Objectivists is hard to say; possibly not. But I think it's very possible to move the culture back -- or forward! -- to the principles of personal responsibility, concerns for self-interest in the right sense of that term, a recognition of the importance of reason and science to a good life and good world, and a desire to eliminate the paternalist welfare state and restore individual liberty.

The arguments offered by Objectivism have a unique appeal especially to Americans. See the "Rand-fan" issue of The New Individualist for details.

Also, by the way, I think the philosophy can have a great appeal to immigrants, as you'll see in my article in the issue after next of our magazine; you'll like the section on Giustino DiCamillo, il mio nonno!


Post 25

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 6:21pmSanction this postReply
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Ed:But I think it's very possible to move the culture back -- or forward! -- to the principles of personal responsibility, concerns for self-interest in the right sense of that term, a recognition of the importance of reason and science to a good life and good world, and a desire to eliminate the paternalist welfare state and restore individual liberty.

Ed,
I think it is possible, I mean... I know it is possible.
How do you think I have arrived here.
Ciao, e grazie mille.
CD.



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Post 26

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 8:23pmSanction this postReply
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I found Robert's long and detailed explanation behind the name change and other strategic issues to be of great importance. Not only did he give many good practical reasons, but the -fact- of giving such a thorough explanation is valuable and shows respect for one's supporters and potential supporters.

Organizations which rely on public contributions should have a high degree of "transparency" - which means: tell everybody what you are doing, why you are investing in one program and not another, what your obstacles are and what you'd like to do better as well as your positive achievements. One of the successful things ARI does is to send Yaron Brook around the country explaining their programs and answering questions from all comers. [I have attended, and YB's plan for how his organization can spread Objectivism is superb -- which does not mean that there can't be a division of labor and a different plan for TOC.] I have absolutely no doubt that this barnstorming has a major impact on contributions.

People will be favorably disposed even if they don't agree with every jot and tittle of the reasoning (or the fact that it's Robert's own statements.) Just the explanation and the fact that its quality shows a lot of thinking has gone into the issues of positioning, naming, marketing, etc. is much appreciated.

(I'm happy that my "bonk" just now bumped it from three atlas statuettes to four.)

(Edited by Philip Coates
on 6/07, 8:30pm)


Post 27

Wednesday, June 7, 2006 - 9:26pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Phil. I appreciate both the comments, and the fact that you sent me oodles more of those little Atlas guys. Gosh, I feel like Sally Fields at the Academy Awards...

;^)



Post 28

Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 3:52pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Bidinotto, I would like to know if your meaning of mass is different than the explanation below, and if you have anything to add or to disagree with it.

CD

 

Mass
Opposite of Vanguard.
Any social movement contains both a vanguard and a mass. The masses are large numbers of people who participate in a struggle or are involved simply by their social position, but are less committed or well-placed in relation to the struggle, and generally will participate only in the decisive moments, which in fact change history. On the other side is the vanguard, made up of people and groups who are more resolute and committed, better organised and able to take a leading role in the struggle.
The masses in a social movement are by their very nature diverse for they represent a large spectrum of humanity. Not only is the mass heterogeneous, but within the mass there are a myriad of networks and relations by means of which the masses enter into activity, ponder questions of policy, make judgments of leaders and make decisions.
The consciousness of the masses can be chaotic since all manner of views co-exist within a movement. A vanguard will generally serve one of two roles among the masses: it can come to dominate the mass, shaping and forming it according to the beliefs of the vanguard, or it can "point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire [mass]", and "always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole."

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 6/08, 3:54pm)


Post 29

Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 3:53pmSanction this postReply
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Bob Bidinotto, in post #4, you write:

1. Those obsessed with attacking this organization 24/7/365 would never be mollified no matter what we do, or don't do. Recall that their past complaint against us was that we DID have "Objectivist" in our name, declaring that we shouldn't because we aren't "really" Objectivists at all. But now that we do not have "Objectivist" in our name, they attack that, declaring that our name change proves our lack of commitment to Objectivism!

This doubletalk is, on its face, completely hypocritical and dishonest.
Actually, from what I've seen, the "attackers" are happy to see the distancing by TOC/AS from the name "Objectivism," and see the new name merely as indicative of the intellectual direction of TOC/AS.  So perhaps it's a fortuitous even if accidental turn of events, from their perspective.  The "attackers" disapproved the use of the name "Objectivist" because they didn't see the TOC as advancing a proper understanding of Objectivism.

I guess the more important question is whether the new name change is a sign of good things as far as TOC/AS ought to be concerned.  Does it improve whatever it was wanting to do in advancing its goals?  Is it merely cosmetics?  Does it help out with the substance of its message?  There are useful questions here.  The name change hasn't done anything to improve the lackluster state of the website, for one.

In short, for communication purposes, "Atlas" is much better in a title than is "Objectivist." A title that communicates little or nothing to target audiences is not an asset.
I'm not sure that even from this vantage point, "Atlas" will provide for much improvement.

But let's say that this is an improvement.  Does it still speak especially well for TOC/AS management that they didn't get the improvement right the first time, some 8 years ago?

I'm sure there's plenty more that can be said about this, but this is the gist of some of it.


Post 30

Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 4:11pmSanction this postReply
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Roger Bissell, in post 5, you write:

1. Diana Hsieh, on her Poodle Poop blog, in criticizing a recent paper by Doug Rasmussen, referred to his "incompetance."

2. Tara Smith, the poster girl for ARI achievement, allowed* the following howler to slip by on the very sparsely worded back cover of her EIGHTY-frickin'-dollar book, published by the very prestigious and well-heeled Cambridge University Press:

Paints a far more positive portrait of the egoist than the stereotypes that philosophers, as well as other;too often lazily accept [typo underscored]
1. That's a blog typo, and from what I can tell, blog entries at Diana's website can't be edited.  Web text at TOC, however, I'm pretty sure could be edited.

2. I think the Smith example has already been covered in this thread.

One other note: you failed to mention, on the TOC-related side of the ledger, Stephen Hicks' book on post-modernism and Tibor Machan's books on Ayn Rand and objectivity and free will and Fred Seddon's history of philosophy in re Objectivism, all of whom have spoken multiple times at TOC conferences and seminar. You also neglected to cite Chris Sciabarra's Russian Radical and Journal of Ayn Rand Studies. TOC has held at least one seminar on RR, and TOC seminar papers continue to appear in JARS (as would papers from ARI folk, if they weren't so phobic and hostile). These guys all deserve equal time with Doug R, Doug DU, and Eric M. (As do, I'm sure, other TOC-related folk whose names and accomplishments have slipped my mind.)
For one thing, I think it worth mentioning that Smith's interactions with Peikoff and Binswanger either in the OGC seminars or elsewhere, seem quite formative to her development as an Objectivist.  It would seem that in this instance, her association with ARI was formative.  I don't know how it occurs with every instance in the "TOC-related" side of the ledger.  TOC wasn't formative to Dougs RDU or Eric M., nor, as far as I know, to Sciabarra's work or to JARS (not all of the work which appears in which is good in any case).  Perhaps TOC could use some more time to see what develops from whatever efforts that mirror those of ARI in this regard, but I'm not finding myself too optimistic about seeing results in the coming years.  I see "assurances" that the job is getting done and will be done, but I'm going on past results.  One of those nasty SOLO people pointed out that TOC lost three of its most promising up-and-coming people over the years, Bryan Register, Will Wilkinson, and Diana.  That's not a troubling track record for grooming new intellectuals?

The achievements of new intellectuals are achievements of individuals, of course, but it's also true that institutions can do things that are better organized, more aggressive, etc. in training them in their formative years.  That's important.  And that's what the "attackers" have been trying to point out.  Isn't it relevant and important to improving the program that Diana wasn't finding the right kind of direction in training from TOC?  Aren't there real differences in the quality and direction of training from TOC vs. ARI?  As the example of Prof. Smith shows, the ARI couldn't be too bad despite whatever your philosophical objections to ARI positions, could it?  If it were producing drones of the bad kind, that would be a problem, but I'm not seeing that.


Post 31

Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 4:19pmSanction this postReply
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Robert Campbell writes:

The question I have for Chris C is what "advancing Objectivism" truly consists of.  So far as I can determine, the only response to Ayn Rand's ideas that will qualify as "advancing Objectivism," by the Ayn Rand Institute's standards, is wider and wider-spread conformity to the interpretations of Rand put forward by the leaders of ARI.  By that standard, only ARI could be "advancing Objectivism" (although we may still ask how widespread the conformity to its official views actually is).  But why should anyone consider the accomplishment of ARI's mission a good thing?

Advancing Objectivism is a pretty straightforward idea, I think.  I think it means presenting the best and strongest defenses of Objectivism -- not as intepreted by ARI, but as interpreted objectively.  And, yes, it does mean advancing Objectivism which, in essence, is Ayn Rand's own philosophy.  Actually, I'm not an "expert" on all aspects of Objectivism, so I don't know whether it basically gets all the right answers on epistemology.  On methodology, it does.  On ethics, it does.  Where I think I have a solid understanding, it's fundamentally right because it's fundamentally a radical updating of Aristotelianism.  Properly advocated and defined, any neo-Aristotelianism is worth advancing -- hence why I advocate reading the Dougs' work, even if they don't claim to be Objectivists.


Post 32

Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 4:32pmSanction this postReply
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Ed Hudgins, you wrote:

Whether the masses will ever consider themselves card-carrying Objectivists is hard to say; possibly not. But I think it's very possible to move the culture back -- or forward! -- to the principles of personal responsibility, concerns for self-interest in the right sense of that term, a recognition of the importance of reason and science to a good life and good world, and a desire to eliminate the paternalist welfare state and restore individual liberty.
While I can really appreciate the positive focus and optimistic outlook that you display in your posts, it doesn't mean that the problems can't be ignored.  Like you, I could embrace those problems as opportunities for improvement rather than just a reason for constant criticism.

So, let's look at the above and see whether there's plenty of room for improvement.  The standpoint of criticism says that the language is too watered-down.  The standpoint of opportunity for improvement says that the language can be made stronger -- and, indeed, more expressive of what Ayn Rand herself, the Objectivist in chief, was advocating.

Just for instance, she didn't see the need to put it in terms of "concerns for self-interest in the right sense of that term."  Why put it in that way, when she had a way of putting it that was forceful and unambiguous?  Or, when did Ayn Rand put her message in terms of "principles of individual responsibility"?  Of course she's all about and all for individual responsibility, but I never saw her use that phrase, from what I can remember.  She did speak about individual rights, though, which I don't see mentioned above.  Conservatives also talk about "individual responsibility," so I don't see how this is supposed to separate Ayn Rand from conservatives.  It simply isn't a "desire to eliminate the paternalist welfare state" (more conservative-sounding rhetoric -- that the problem with the welfare state is "paternalism"), but the fact that the welfare state is fundamentally immoral, that it violates individual rights, and that laissez-faire capitalism (another term I didn't see above) is the only social system consistent with man's rights.

By contrast to Rand's own statements, the above just doesn't seem to carry anwhere near the amount of "oomph" or clarity of the goal that distinguishes Objectivism from other ideas.  Rand wasn't about playing nice rhetorically, was she?


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Post 33

Thursday, June 8, 2006 - 7:30pmSanction this postReply
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Chris -- I have no problem as such using forceful language. Read some of the many things I've written in op-ed and other pieces.  And I usually offer explanations that differentiate us from conservatives and even libertarians, though if they want to agree with us, great!

But more important is your question about words. If your goal in using them is to communicate accurately with your audience, you must understand the audience's context. For example, Rand used the word "selfish" in a way that differs from most people's understanding of that word. Most people think it means going anything -- including initiating force -- to get your way. So as an advocate I need to communicate to my audience the concept of self-interest as Objectivists understand it.

Remember: Words are not magic sounds. Repeating them over and over to individuals who have little idea of what you're talking about is wasting your breath (or ink or hard-drive space). So on self-interest, for example, I've sometimes asked people, "Are hardcore drug addicts really acting in their self-interest?" Most people say "No" but can't quite say why. Then I explain what is in one's true self-interest and why.

By the way, a technique I learned from Rand -- and a bit from Aristotle -- is that when you're discussing an issue and the word is actually getting in the way because someone has a very different understanding of it, pretend the word doesn't exist. Describe the phenomenon. So if "selfish" has a confused connotation for someone, talk about what should be the goal of your life and actions. Hurting yourself? Damning yourself to a frustrating existence as you waste time figuring out how to serve others?

You'll still get people who disagree with you but at least you'll make the issues clear and the individuals in question will find it more difficult to hide behind their confusion about an issue, whether that confusion is an honest mistake, the product of lazy thinking, or self-induced.

(Edited by Ed Hudgins on 6/09, 7:54am)


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Post 34

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:54amSanction this postReply
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ATLAS SOCIETY??  ATLAS SOCIETY??!!!!   Taking the first word of Atlas Shrugged for their name!!  The nerve of those....those....."moral tolerationists"!!

Well, the AYN RAND INSTITUTE should not let them get away with it!!  ARI should also respond with a name change of their own to capitalize on the forthcoming movie.  Something that captures their essence of their own proprietary claims on "everything Ayn Rand"....
ARI could rename itself the ATLAS SHRUGGED SOCIETY....(of course, they could then just use their new initials so that they could be easily recognized.....).

(Edited by Gerald M Biggers on 6/13, 1:48pm)


Post 35

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 7:58amSanction this postReply
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Hahahahahahahaha.

Nice, Gerald.

Post 36

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:20amSanction this postReply
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Can anyone point me to some numbers on what TOC's (oops . . . TAS's) annual funding/budget is nowadays?

I attended Yaron Brook's State of the ARI speech last night . . . and was most pleasantly surprised to see where its annual budget stands nowadays.  To think that I was expecting to see it still around the $1 million, maybe $2 million mark, more or less what it was a few years back when I last looked.

Let's put it this way: it's about 2 or 3 years off, if that, from an annual budget in excess of TEN MILLION DOLLARS, which puts it almost in the same league funding-wise as Cato or Heritage, and with much better idea-to-money ratio, to boot.  We're in the midst of an inflection-point, right here and now, that only further catapults Ayn Rand's name into the national spotlight, and it just so happens to be spearheaded by the "competitor" to TOC/TAS.  Cato and Heritage are quite well-known.  Who'd thought it'd be so soon that the name "Ayn Rand" would garner as much instant national name-recognition.

I'd be more optimistic from this news than from the hopes/wishes that an Atlas Shrugged movie will get made and get made well in the near future.  If anything, by the time it gets made (and doubtful it will get made well), it will be because the name "Ayn Rand" is already so well out there to be a large enough selling attraction at the kind of budget required to make it -- and her name will be so well out there as a cause of the movie rather than an effect of it, and it will be due to spearheading efforts by organizations like ARI, which at least has the funding to pull it off.

Whatever differences I have with ARI, it's small potatoes compared with the huge impact it could be making in the coming years, at the intellectual and media levels.  I get the distinct impression that it's going to be leaving "competitor" organizations in the dust, and that in the context of the much-wider project of changing the culture, more and more funding is going to keep shifting in ARI's direction.

Ten million ain't nothing to, ahem, laugh at.


Post 37

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:31amSanction this postReply
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Okay, ten million can be laughed at.

Dr. Evil, putting pinky to corner of mouth:

"Ten . . . MILLION . . . Dollars!  Mwaaaha ha ha ha . . . mwaaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa.!
 
"Mwaa ha haaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa!!!"
 
"Mwaaa ha ha ha!!!!!"
 
"Mmmmmmwaaaaaaha ha ha ha ha haaaa ha a haaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!"
 
"Mwaaaha ha ha ha haha ha ha haaa ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!"
 
"Mwaaaaahhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!"
 
"Mwaaahaaaaahahahahahahaaaa ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
 
"Mwaaaaahaahhahahaaaaa ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!"
 
"Mwaaaahahaha!!!"
 
"Haaaa ha ha ha haaa!!!"
 
"Ha ha hee huh ha ha"
 
"Hoo . . . "
 


Post 38

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 11:44amSanction this postReply
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Such a cathcartic comment is sure to inspire....

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Post 39

Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 12:03pmSanction this postReply
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Chris: "Let's put it this way: it's about 2 or 3 years off, if that, from an annual budget in excess of TEN MILLION DOLLARS, which puts it almost in the same league funding-wise as Cato or Heritage, and with much better idea-to-money ratio, to boot."

I think you're exaggerating, Chris.

First, I went to a State of ARI talk as well, and I believe its budget this year is about $5 million. On what basis do you predict that in just a couple of years it will be twice as much? For a nonprofit organization (excluding some outliers), $5 million is a very difficult sum of money to raise.

Second, even if its budget in a couple of years were $10 million, ARI still wouldn't be in "almost the same league" as Cato or Heritage. Cato's budget is over $20 million this year, and Heritage's budget is even more. That's a very big disparity in the nonprofit world (excluding some outliers).



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